Scallop season closed in St. Joe Bay

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From the Tallahassee Democrat today. Doesn't mention the red tide's effect on the finfish populations.
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Scallop season closed in St. Joe Bay
Karl Etters, Democrat staff writer 1:25 p.m. EDT April 27, 2016

Bay Scallop season in St. Joseph bay will be closed when it opens statewide in July due to impacts of red tide.

The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission says that the scallop population in the longtime premier Gulf County spot is too low to sustain a harvest this year.

The season will be closed in waters west of St. Vincent Island, including St. Joseph Bay.

“Scientific monitoring of bay scallops in St. Joseph Bay indicates that the bay scallop population has declined severely due to impacts of red tide,” FWC officials said in a news release. “As a result, the bay scallop population is too low to sustain and recover from an open season for scalloping this summer.”

From September through December, Gulf County had a red tide bloom. That is also when bay scallops spawn and larvae settle into the area.

No red tie has been present in St. Joseph Bay since January.

FWC is hosting a meeting starting at 5 p.m. Eastern Time, Wednesday, April 27 at the Gulf County BOCC Meeting Room, Robert M. Moore Administration Building, 1000 Cecil G. Costin Sr. Blvd. in Port St. Joe.

[MudDucker]

That will be a kick in the economic pants of Gulf County! I don't know that it would be as devastating as if it were Keaton/Steinhatchee, but it is going to hurt.

[800-Beer4Fish]

Not closed - yet!
Democrat states "may be closed this summer". A closure would require an order from the FWC's executive team. Could come as early as next week.

Anyway - hurts tourism in the area

[MudDucker]

I got an FWC email that says they are debating what to do. If the scallop population is so low, I don't see where they have much choice.

[crappielimits]

I think they need to consider a closed season throughout the big bend. Shrimp and oysters need less pressure too. Funny how everything is struggling since the oil spill?

[RCS]

The spill itself didn't directly impact any of those things. You can attribute them, oysters in particular, to mismanagement and the tri-state water war. Anticipating that the spill would make it over here and destroy the oyster beds, the state of FL gave the go-ahead to harvest as many as they could, while they could, and that devastated the beds. Factor in the lack of fresh water due to increased withholding in GA, and there's the answer to your oyster dilemma. SJB is more a product of red tide than the aforementioned issues, but if I remember correctly, FWC also opened scallop season early the year of the BP spill in fear of the spill making its way over here and destroying that fishery as well.

[crappielimits]

The lack of freshwater and Ga withholding is 100% false. First of all most of the rivers have hit flood stage several times over the past few years. These systems have experienced high waters for extended periods too. Secondly, if anyone wants to look at cause/effect of water withholding, you should check out the effect of Leon counties laws requiring holding ponds. This area and its growth has been eating up resources at an accelerated rate. Once they started putting in all these water retention ponds stopping run off into our watershed lakes you can see the unfortunate consequences. Sometimes we rush decisions to stop one problem we created just to create another. The biggest example is Lake Jackson and everyone chalks it up to the sinkholes but all bodies of water lose water some way. Water has to be put back in to sustain the system. Not to mention the plantations and so called scientists effects on our systems. Georgia is not withholding water and creating any problems just do as I already have and ask the gentleman at the dam.

As far as the oil spill I am not saying for sure, but am curious why things have went downhill since the spill. Why are there so red algae blooms? What is being done to combat red tides? Could the oil have impacted us indirectly creating a chronic issue here. With a worse effect than the acute issue further West and closer to the spill? Just asking questions to spur conversation that provide constructive feedback from stakeholders who know our waters. Not trying to upset or point the finger. Even though my education is in science and firmly believe in supported or proven science. I feel many scientists hypothesize well but follow through proving these theories poorly or force results to prove their own agenda. Just saying remember to ask questions and look at the big picture.

[doomtrpr_z71]

Tate's hell actually has more to do with the oysters than ga. Fwc commissioned warnell to do a study on the effects of the forestry drainage and was given 10 recommendations to improve the oyster habitat. The fwc didn't like those recommendation and did the opposite of what was recommended, including draining more water from Tate's hell. While I think Atlanta needs its own reservoir, think how low the flow would have been if there had been no dam and a free flow during the peak of the drought.

[RCS]

The lack of freshwater and Ga withholding is 100% false. First of all most of the rivers have hit flood stage several times over the past few years. These systems have experienced high waters for extended periods too. Secondly, if anyone wants to look at cause/effect of water withholding, you should check out the effect of Leon counties laws requiring holding ponds. This area and its growth has been eating up resources at an accelerated rate. Once they started putting in all these water retention ponds stopping run off into our watershed lakes you can see the unfortunate consequences. Sometimes we rush decisions to stop one problem we created just to create another. The biggest example is Lake Jackson and everyone chalks it up to the sinkholes but all bodies of water lose water some way. Water has to be put back in to sustain the system. Not to mention the plantations and so called scientists effects on our systems. Georgia is not withholding water and creating any problems just do as I already have and ask the gentleman at the dam.

As far as the oil spill I am not saying for sure, but am curious why things have went downhill since the spill. Why are there so red algae blooms? What is being done to combat red tides? Could the oil have impacted us indirectly creating a chronic issue here. With a worse effect than the acute issue further West and closer to the spill? Just asking questions to spur conversation that provide constructive feedback from stakeholders who know our waters. Not trying to upset or point the finger. Even though my education is in science and firmly believe in supported or proven science. I feel many scientists hypothesize well but follow through proving these theories poorly or force results to prove their own agenda. Just saying remember to ask questions and look at the big picture.

The withholding of water in GA has absolutely played a pivotal role in the decline of Apalachicola Bay. What we end up seeing are cycles of high salinity, then flushing occurrences caused by big rain events. But in general, with ATL using more water now than in the past, and increased farming irrigation, the Apalachicola delta and bay receive less fresh water. The water received locally and held in retaining ponds has a minuscule effect on that ecosystem compared to the Apalachicola river itself, and its tributaries further north in GA. Feel free to heed your own advice and do some research. There's a reason why GA and FL have been locked in a legal battle over water rights for years.

[crappielimits]

There is no water battle and Florida has received more water in the last two years from Ga than they have since 1994. I agree the management of Tate's Hell withholds water to the bay and could be better. Sometimes the thing to do is to do a closed season for a year. As much as I love oysters, i could do without. The problem is the high demand and much more pressure too. I don't want the oyster guys to lose income so maybe the state can hire them to help manage the habitats while the season is closed. I also wonder if the shells are getting put back in a timely manner or at all. Maybe only allow the sell of shucked oysters a year or two and mandatory restoration of habitat. This would require a clear plan and training for the oyster harvesters. Regardless of the plan the oyster harvesters need to be trained by the state, liscensed, and limited to control numbers. By the way Atlantas water use hasn't demanded more of the Hooch water system to hurt anything. They actually treat and reuse 80% of their water. Unfortunately, we had a drought a few years back when all this talk arose and No one had any water. The Army Core of Engineers had the most control during this time, keeping the waterway able to be navigated from Gulf to North Ga and Alabama. All my calls about water management have always been referred to the fact of Homeland security and the military's need to get supplies up and down the river if have to. We have tried for years to get Seminole lowered for grass management and to relieve the tremendous pressure on bass populations. The levels could be rotated from Lanier all the way down to Seminole allowing more water to Fla if needed.

[RCS]

I don't know who you've talked to, but you've been misinformed. Not only is there a fight between FL and GA over equitable apportionment of the the ACF river basin, but that fight is currently before the Supreme Court, where it's been since 2013 (and is now in mediations with a Ct. appointed Special Master). Not only has Atlanta's water use grown, but it continues to grow, as does the use of water from the ACF basin for agricultural purposes. Part of FL's lawsuit was a response to GA's petition to receive more of the water from the ACF basin, as Lanier can't support the cities expected growth.
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/ca ... georgia-2/

Two weeks ago, the Apalachicola-Chattahoochee-Flint River basin was declared to be the most endangered river system in the US as a result of these issues (ATL growth, increased AG use, etc.)
https://medium.com/americas-most-endangered-rivers

You stated your education was in science, and you believe in proven science. This, my friend, is proven science, but feel free to do your own research on the issue.

[crappielimits]

Bud, I understand the court case which has moved from court to court without any justification. I also understand the problems in the river basin. You feel it's Ga fault I feel it can be fixed by Florida. Greed is the problem. Its obvious that our populations have grown everywhere including Atl and Tally. Which creates more demand on resources such as water. Atlanta has made huge strides to lower the demand on the Hooch system. Their research shows the release of much more water over the last two years. As stated before stakeholders need to focus on methods that can be implemented to improve the ecosystem. Stop placing the blame on a greedy witch hunt over water that is making others rich. Also look at the real numbers not the news. Political agendas can turn numbers anyway they need to get their point but the facts are what hold up in court. Ga fighting same battle with Tennessee. Living organisms adapt, if the issue was a salinity problem then the species would move to optimium salinity levels. The biggest problem is habitat destruction and over harvest on oysters. Trout are being over run by red tides and invasive species. Not to mention the added fishing pressure. Those are my constructive opinions to add to the conversations and I am now done. People been arguing about water rights for 100s of years and I can't waste my time arguing with you about water. I am from Ga and want the same results as you for the Applach system. There are multiple factors that need to be and can be addressed.

[RCS]

Bud, I understand the court case which has moved from court to court without any justification. I also understand the problems in the river basin. You feel it's Ga fault I feel it can be fixed by Florida. Greed is the problem. Its obvious that our populations have grown everywhere including Atl and Tally. Which creates more demand on resources such as water. Atlanta has made huge strides to lower the demand on the Hooch system. Their research shows the release of much more water over the last two years. As stated before stakeholders need to focus on methods that can be implemented to improve the ecosystem. Stop placing the blame on a greedy witch hunt over water that is making others rich. Also look at the real numbers not the news. Political agendas can turn numbers anyway they need to get their point but the facts are what hold up in court. Ga fighting same battle with Tennessee. Living organisms adapt, if the issue was a salinity problem then the species would move to optimium salinity levels. The biggest problem is habitat destruction and over harvest on oysters. Trout are being over run by red tides and invasive species. Not to mention the added fishing pressure. Those are my constructive opinions to add to the conversations and I am now done. People been arguing about water rights for 100s of years and I can't waste my time arguing with you about water. I am from Ga and want the same results as you for the Applach system. There are multiple factors that need to be and can be addressed.

As I initially indicated, the withholding of water by GA is only one contributing factor in the decline of the river basin, but it's the factor that's played the most substantial role in that decline...that isn't speculation or bias, that's fact. Nothing about the tri-state water conflict is a greedy witch hunt. GA, FL, and AL all have legitimate causes of action to support their claims. For the purposes of this discussion, GA (the ATL area in particular) has a legitimate need for more water, and FL has a legitimate interest in preserving the Apalachicola Bay ecosystem and the industries it supports. Certain individuals and organizations may benefit from a swing in either direction, but both states' overall goals are founded in good faith, not greed. Atlanta may have begun making strides towards lowering its dependence on the Hooch system in recent years, but that's not entirely by choice...in 2009, the 11th Circuit Court told GA it couldn't increase its consumption of water in the ACF system, and had 3 years to find an alternate water source. That decision was overturned in 2012, but it had already spurred the initiative to explore other options. Also, part of the reason for the pending litigation between FL/GA is the result of GA suing the Corps of Engineers in 2002 for the increased release of water into Lanier for use by ATL, and from the Buford Dam to support increased industrial withdrawals. These increases in water allowance were to increase annually based on the State's projected needs for 2030. Those are facts.

This may not be the case, but it's my understanding that you think the reports based on scientific data, collected by 3rd parties, that support exactly what I'm claiming...that the withholding of water in GA has increased the salinity levels in Apalachicola Bay and damaged the ecosystem...are politically motivated propaganda. If that is the case, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but your claim that "the lack of freshwater due to GA's withholding is 100% false" with regards to being a key component to the decline of the ACF basin couldn't be more inaccurate. This is a salinity issue (in large part), and organisms can't adapt overnight. Also, when you take into consideration the fact that the ACF river system accounts for 35% of the freshwater input into the eastern Gulf, even a slight withholding can have a dramatic effect on a very large ecosystem in the long run, and we're not talking about a slight withholding in this case.

Now, is this the only issue contributing to a decline in the bay? No. In addition to the underlying ecological issues, the State of Florida dropped the ball big time when it allowed the oyster beds to be ravaged in the face of the BP spill. The oyster and mussel populations in the bay were almost wiped out, and now those populations are faced with the task of rebuilding in a damaged environment. Other factors have also played significant roles in harming the fishery in our area...we've had issues with red tide, grass kills, over fishing, you name it. All of these are problems, but the biggest problem remains a lack in the amount of fresh water necessary, on a continuous basis, for the basin to regulate itself. To make the claim that this withholding doesn't exist or that it doesn't have a major impact on the basin is the equivalent of peeing on someone and telling them it's raining.

For the record, I'm also from GA, and I have no doubt that you want what's best for the ACF basin...same goes for anyone on this forum. I just want you and everyone else that reads this thread to understand where the root of the problem lies, and that this isn't just some story that the state of FL has concocted to displace blame. There are multiple issues, and just like the issue of water withholding, they all need to be addressed and fixed.

[crappielimits]

Now that we have settled that there are things besides the flow of water. What are we going to do about replacing habitat? Training and liscensing oyster harvesters? Considerations for lesser or closed harvest? I don't care how much freshwater you get if you don't have the habitat they won't survive. Next is predators, the black drum and jack populations have skyrocketed in the bay. Not to mention other predators fisherman seldom target to keep?

My favorites are trout,redfish, flounder, cobia and Black Sea bass. All have shown declines since Katrina, other storms, droughts, and the spill. I am curious about the regular occurrence of red tide and the causes. What can be done to stop? It is devastating PSJ area.

Another major issue to habitat is destruction from boat traffic. I see it all the time where boats have cut through the grass flats. At St. Marks you have a marked channel commonly run out of the river. Not so much east to west but most run similar runs so not near the damage. Places like Aucilla and Econfina get ran in every direction as there really isn't defined areas to run. Could we better identify boat runs and push boaters to maintain them? Would this help grass flats growth?

I just want a group of stakeholders to start discussing some of the issues we can fix. If we work together and push FWC and other entities we can make this system better. At the very least we can self implement catch and release or stricter self regulations on ourselves. I love the gulf and need my taste of Salt on a regular basis.

[MudDucker]

How did a thread on scallops end up being about oysters?

There are strong feelings every which away about Apalachicola. Experts disagree. Oysters grow elsewhere with little or no fresh water.

The only thing I've seen nearly every expert agree on was the bay got raped ahead of the oil spill that never made it to the bay.

Atlanta is not going to quit using water.

Now back to scallops, when does the big population study come out?