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Juan wrote:I've heard that when stuck by a catfish barb, rubbing slime from the catfish on the wound takes the sting out. True or False? Probably an old wive's tale but I've tried it and it seemed to work. Might have been a "mental" thing.
The slime is on the skin.HighOnTheFlats wrote:Juan wrote:I've heard that when stuck by a catfish barb, rubbing slime from the catfish on the wound takes the sting out. True or False? Probably an old wive's tale but I've tried it and it seemed to work. Might have been a "mental" thing.
Been told this my whole life as well. Would not recommend rubbing any wound on the but hole of any animal, period.
In vitro use of hydrogen peroxide is an excellent killer of many bacteria (surgical equipment). In vivo? Not so much. It is diluted/inactivated by purulent material, blood and debris. Excellent for irrigation, as long as it is not degraded (it does have a shelf life) as it will likely be as sterile as saline. Also very effective when combined with other antiseptics, but used alone it is not a pure wound cleaner (like a surgical scrub). Especially when it is stored in a warm environment.HighOnTheFlats wrote:onefishtwofish wrote:Scary stuff Gary.
Couple of thoughts. Maybe a "real doc" will chime in if one is on here.
Silver: Peroxide is not really a good wound cleaner. It actually does a good job at removing debris because of the bubbling action, but it does not kill bacteria very well.
There are lots of different strains of "flesh eating" bacteria (necrotizing faciitis). Vibrio is a common one found in brackish water and is a nasty bug.
hand sanitizer requires 10 minutes of contact to kill bacteria. So don't put it on and then dry it, or even worse rinse your hands. An antibacterial scrub (like Hibiclens) is not very expensive, very stable and will sit on your boat and be effective for a long time. Wash any wounds thoroughly and you should be much more sterile than a sanitizer. Rinse with bottled water instead of saltwater (neither are sterile, but bottled is closer). Most of these nasty bugs are pretty easy to kill when they first gain entrance, but tough once the infection has spread.
Half-way there, hydrogen peroxide is a great anti-septic for wounds. Keep in mind any sterile liquid can be used to irrigate a wound. In fact, surgical equipment has been and can be sterilized with peroxide. Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface. But your right in saying not all bacteria responds to sanitizer and that is where actually washing your hands with antibacterial soap comes in to play. you should wash your hands after every few times after applying hand sanitizer.
I know you meant ineffective. I always laugh when they swab my skin with alcohol to clean it for like 10 seconds (at most). Ummm, that did not kill anything! (or very little). Studies have even shown on equines, that can actually make an injection MORE likely to carry in bacteria deeply. We did alcohol swabs and cultures in school (Microbiology) and found that the time was somewhere between 2-3 minutes of wetness to alter the culture count from dry skin.Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface.
onefishtwofish wrote:I know you meant ineffective. I always laugh when they swab my skin with alcohol to clean it for like 10 seconds (at most). Ummm, that did not kill anything! (or very little). Studies have even shown on equines, that can actually make an injection MORE likely to carry in bacteria deeply. We did alcohol swabs and cultures in school (Microbiology) and found that the time was somewhere between 2-3 minutes of wetness to alter the culture count from dry skin.Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface.
the real argument against peroxide/alcohol are its damage to tissue by destroying the cell's walls and can pro-long healing time, and as stated not everything cleans "all bacterias" I wasn't trying to say what was best, but if its what ya got its what got.onefishtwofish wrote:In vitro use of hydrogen peroxide is an excellent killer of many bacteria (surgical equipment). In vivo? Not so much. It is diluted/inactivated by purulent material, blood and debris. Excellent for irrigation, as long as it is not degraded (it does have a shelf life) as it will likely be as sterile as saline. Also very effective when combined with other antiseptics, but used alone it is not a pure wound cleaner (like a surgical scrub). Especially when it is stored in a warm environment.HighOnTheFlats wrote:onefishtwofish wrote:Scary stuff Gary.
Couple of thoughts. Maybe a "real doc" will chime in if one is on here.
Silver: Peroxide is not really a good wound cleaner. It actually does a good job at removing debris because of the bubbling action, but it does not kill bacteria very well.
There are lots of different strains of "flesh eating" bacteria (necrotizing faciitis). Vibrio is a common one found in brackish water and is a nasty bug.
hand sanitizer requires 10 minutes of contact to kill bacteria. So don't put it on and then dry it, or even worse rinse your hands. An antibacterial scrub (like Hibiclens) is not very expensive, very stable and will sit on your boat and be effective for a long time. Wash any wounds thoroughly and you should be much more sterile than a sanitizer. Rinse with bottled water instead of saltwater (neither are sterile, but bottled is closer). Most of these nasty bugs are pretty easy to kill when they first gain entrance, but tough once the infection has spread.
Half-way there, hydrogen peroxide is a great anti-septic for wounds. Keep in mind any sterile liquid can be used to irrigate a wound. In fact, surgical equipment has been and can be sterilized with peroxide. Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface. But your right in saying not all bacteria responds to sanitizer and that is where actually washing your hands with antibacterial soap comes in to play. you should wash your hands after every few times after applying hand sanitizer.
If my goal was to stop a flesh eating bacteria or a MRSA (or MRSP), I would not reach for peroxide other than a wound irrigant. Your mileage may vary.
silverking wrote:HighonFlats,
Appreciate your service (Navy vet myself) and your training as a corpsman.
OneFish and Salty Gator are both practicing veterinarians with years of medical training and experience. Granted, they work on animals and not people but many common prescriptions and practices apply to both humans and animals.
So your comment about sea lawyers is off the mark. SG is also my family vet who treats my "kids" extremely well, so I put a lot of credence into his and OneFish's recommendations.
Bottom line, my peroxide was old, has been stored in a hot boat shed and I have a ready replacement in the Betadine. Would it still have some topical benefits? Probably. Is any immediate treatment better than doing nothing? Of course. I've doused a cut with Heineken on the water before and the alcohol in it helped ward off infections. But there are some serious bacteria in brackish/salt water and it behooves everyone to take proper precautions.
I think you meant negative “ ghost rider” not negative ghost writer, but I see you don’t like being correctedHighOnTheFlats wrote:onefishtwofish wrote:I know you meant ineffective. I always laugh when they swab my skin with alcohol to clean it for like 10 seconds (at most). Ummm, that did not kill anything! (or very little). Studies have even shown on equines, that can actually make an injection MORE likely to carry in bacteria deeply. We did alcohol swabs and cultures in school (Microbiology) and found that the time was somewhere between 2-3 minutes of wetness to alter the culture count from dry skin.Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface.
Negative ghost writer, not sure what biased research your using and what angle your working here. But telling folks that "Hydrogen Peroxide won't do this so I recommend this, alcohol on my skin isn't working so I laugh because my text book says different (microbiology)". I can't support, my eight years as a navy hospital corpsman and life lessons say different.
If rubbing alcohol, peroxide, hand sanitizer, holy water, unicorn tears etc is all you got it is better than the alternative of nothing. Listening to Uncle Steve's advice of rubbing wounds with fish slime and treating jelly fish wounds with urine is madness.
Lets be real here for a minute, you just lost your footing and sliced your head open on some oyster shells, and all I have is a few alcohol swabs, you gonna laugh and quote microbiology or you gonna let me clean you up? Everyone is a sea lawyer until its time to go to trial.
more of a pun to the person typing on his computer that I don't know.... but I see you like jumping into fights that don't concern you. but thats none of my business. ....Salty Gator wrote:I think you meant negative “ ghost rider” not negative ghost writer, but I see you don’t like being correctedHighOnTheFlats wrote:onefishtwofish wrote:I know you meant ineffective. I always laugh when they swab my skin with alcohol to clean it for like 10 seconds (at most). Ummm, that did not kill anything! (or very little). Studies have even shown on equines, that can actually make an injection MORE likely to carry in bacteria deeply. We did alcohol swabs and cultures in school (Microbiology) and found that the time was somewhere between 2-3 minutes of wetness to alter the culture count from dry skin.Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface.
Negative ghost writer, not sure what biased research your using and what angle your working here. But telling folks that "Hydrogen Peroxide won't do this so I recommend this, alcohol on my skin isn't working so I laugh because my text book says different (microbiology)". I can't support, my eight years as a navy hospital corpsman and life lessons say different.
If rubbing alcohol, peroxide, hand sanitizer, holy water, unicorn tears etc is all you got it is better than the alternative of nothing. Listening to Uncle Steve's advice of rubbing wounds with fish slime and treating jelly fish wounds with urine is madness.
Lets be real here for a minute, you just lost your footing and sliced your head open on some oyster shells, and all I have is a few alcohol swabs, you gonna laugh and quote microbiology or you gonna let me clean you up? Everyone is a sea lawyer until its time to go to trial.
When you start insulting professionals that I know and respect ( including me) I’ll jump on in. You have’t been on this forum long enough to know people yet, but when you do you will back them up as well. You have a high opinion of yourself, what do you do for a living that makes you such an expert you can correct people with many more years of training than you?HighOnTheFlats wrote:more of a pun to the person typing on his computer that I don't know.... but I see you like jumping into fights that don't concern you. but thats none of my business. ....Salty Gator wrote:I think you meant negative “ ghost rider” not negative ghost writer, but I see you don’t like being correctedHighOnTheFlats wrote:onefishtwofish wrote:I know you meant ineffective. I always laugh when they swab my skin with alcohol to clean it for like 10 seconds (at most). Ummm, that did not kill anything! (or very little). Studies have even shown on equines, that can actually make an injection MORE likely to carry in bacteria deeply. We did alcohol swabs and cultures in school (Microbiology) and found that the time was somewhere between 2-3 minutes of wetness to alter the culture count from dry skin.Hand sanitizer is effective as soon as it is evaporated from the skins surface.
Negative ghost writer, not sure what biased research your using and what angle your working here. But telling folks that "Hydrogen Peroxide won't do this so I recommend this, alcohol on my skin isn't working so I laugh because my text book says different (microbiology)". I can't support, my eight years as a navy hospital corpsman and life lessons say different.
If rubbing alcohol, peroxide, hand sanitizer, holy water, unicorn tears etc is all you got it is better than the alternative of nothing. Listening to Uncle Steve's advice of rubbing wounds with fish slime and treating jelly fish wounds with urine is madness.
Lets be real here for a minute, you just lost your footing and sliced your head open on some oyster shells, and all I have is a few alcohol swabs, you gonna laugh and quote microbiology or you gonna let me clean you up? Everyone is a sea lawyer until its time to go to trial.
