Gas/Alcohol

[Flatout]

Hey, you marine mechanics, Tell me about the new danger of this alcohol-gas mixture now being sold. I heard its not good for our outboards, and its of course government mandated. What are we to do? I suppose its detramental to my gas burning truck also?

[WaltDawg]

I heard it's only bad depending on what type of gas tank you have on your boat because it can cause corrosion. I don't think its harmful to the engine itself.

[tin can]

Here's what Yamaha has to say.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/fa ... swers.aspx

[silverking]

From my blog on saltwatersportsman.com:

Corn Liquor
Watching the recent presidential debates, I heard both candidates talk about America's need to wean off foreign oil. T. Boone Pickens and I agree that's a good platform. We should be doing everything possible to develop green, alternative energy sources like solar, wind and thermal. But if a straw vote were held today among boaters, ethanol would earn a raspberry so loud the Smucker boys would fall off their bikes. This stuff is like corn liquor-it sounds good, but it'll sure give your fuel system a nasty hangover if you're not careful.

I did a quick survey this week of friends around the coast. From hurricane-ravaged Houston to Brunswick, Charleston and Virginia Beach, all confirmed that E10 fuel, or gas with a 10-percent ethanol additive derived mainly from corn, was now common in their areas. Each had also recently experienced problems with ethanol gas themselves or knew someone who had. The Midwest and California have been pumping E10 for years. Northeast anglers suffered through a learning curve the past three seasons. Now, the rest of us are finding out just how troublesome this "solution" can be.

E10 gasoline is problematic for two reasons: It acts like a solvent and it has a tendency to retain water. As a solvent, it can deteriorate older hoses, seals and fiberglass tanks. It scours varnish off the sides of aluminum tanks. The resulting crud eventually clogs injectors and forces expensive repairs. Newer outboards are designed to run on E-10 gas. But to keep them purring smoothly, install a 10-micron fuel/water separator filter. Then, replace it every 100 hours or so.

E10 gas also has a nasty habit of phase separating into water. It starts breaking down within 60 to 90 days. E10 can hold up to four teaspoons of water suspended per gallon. But any more and the heavier water settles to the bottom of the tank where it's picked up by the sender. Condensation caused by fluctuating temperatures inside the tank adds still more moisture. And water in gas engines doesn't mix very well.

Fortunately, filters siphon some of that water out of the gas. Additives like STA-BIL and others help retard the separation. Topping off the tank, especially when the boat is idle for long periods, limits the amount of vented air and reduces condensation.

But there's another way to avoid hassles with corn liquor gas. To paraphrase the infamous Chicago voting slogan, use it early and use it often. Go fishing. Relieve stress. Forget about the financial crisis, at least for a day. That and pray the next president actually keeps a campaign promise to help develop something besides ethanol to power our boat engines.

--POSTED BY CAPT. DAVE LEAR on 10/10/2008

[FUTCHCAIRO]

HEY DAVE, THANKS FOR THE DETAILED INFORMATION. ALL OF THE ENGINES I HAVE ARE 99 YEAR MODEL OR OLDER. I AM STILL ABLE TO GET STRAIGHT GAS AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO. I HAVE FUEL FILTERS ON ALL OF MY TANKS, I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY WILL CONTINUE TO GET THE WATER OUT OF ETHANOL OR NOT. IS THERE A SPECIFIC BRAND OR NUMBER THAT SHOULD BE USED. ALL OF MY TANKS ARE FIBERGLASS COMPOSITE. I HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED PROBLEMS YET.
PA THE OLD MAN OF THE SEA

[Joe]

Does anyone know who sells Ethanol free gas in the Crawfordville, Panacea area. Does the lack of a 10% sticker mean its truly pure? Most pumps dont even have card readers down here.

[silverking]

Sta-bil and Star Tron by Sea brite are the two most common gasoline additives that help combat ethanol problems. One 8-oz. bottle will treat several tanks after the initial load. You can buy this at West Marine, Boater's World and most boat dealerships. Sells for around $13 for the small bottle.

10-micron filters are the highest strainers on the market right now. They're made either by the brand--Yamaha--or as aftermarket filters like Racor or Sierra. Most of the experts I talked to say change them at least every season, if not more often.

Pa, I'd be very careful with your tanks. The ethanol acts like a solvent and will eat away at fiberglass tanks. The residual sludge will gum up your carbs, injectors, etc.

If ethanol is added, the pumps are supposed to have stickers saying so. Ethanol is added by the wholesalers, so there are some stations and marinas that don't request it. Shields in St. Marks is one that orders non-ethanol for their fuel. Late model outboards are designed to run on no more than 10 percent. But as mentioned earlier, be careful An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or a big labor bill to drain the tank and clean the fuel system.

[Knot Tester]

Check out WIKI for more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E10_fuel

[tin can]

If I'm not mistaken, it's federally mandated that all gas will have ethanol added, eventually. I'm not sure just when that takes affect, but the bottom line is we are all going to have to deal with the problem. If you aren't already running an in line fuel/water separator you need to invest in one. The 10 micron filters are a little more expensive. The kit costs about $50. An injector removal/cleaning/reinstall is around $600. The fuel system cleaning is another $150-$200.

[Jumptrout51]

That's OK. 'Bama will bail me out if my fuel system goes down.

[Flint River Pirate]

That's OK. 'Bama will bail me out if my fuel system goes down.

[Fonetek]

Mornin Flatout,

Three weeks ago I took my 96 Johnson 115 to the shop for a tune-up. The mechanic put a rebuild kit in each of the carbs. He said the needles/seats contained a new rubber composition that resisted the effects of 'gas-a-hol.' We'll see!

[Dabbler]

Good reading. Thanks.

[Speedy]

Hey guys!
I do not know if all of you know this or not but Campbell's Automotive & Air on West Tennessee, which they are a PURE gasoline dealer, sells ethanol free gas. I saw it listed today for $1.94/gallon. I stopped in to talk to them and they said that they have not updated their equipment to handle ethanol gas. So they will continue to sell ethanol free fuel as long as they can do it. Guys, it's well worth it to grab some fuel cans and go up there just so you could avoid the problems that you could get with ethanol. Here is their map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... d&z=14&t=m

Good luck and send them some business. They're a small mom & pop type of place.

Speedy

[BAD BEHAVIOR]

I took BB into the shop this week to have the motor de-winterized. They found over a gallon of water in her and Ive now got a stiff bill and had to replace the filter.