Question for the local duck hunters

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micci_man
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Location: N Fl

Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by micci_man »

The motor permit is for people that own the islands on Iamonia, not for permission to hunt them. You are supposed to only go to and from said island with the motor and not stop and hunt between the ramp.

Parking passes- it is a way to generate money to FWC but there are private ramps and launch places on the lake that people can access the lake from without being on public property.


Thanks for your comments Danibeth!
Don't major in the minor stuff in life
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RCS
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by RCS »

Danibeth, you can hunt any day of the week in Leon county. It's only Miccosukee, Iamonia, Jackson, Carr and Lafayette that are restricted to MWF/holidays. Also, a 25 shell limit may not accommodate a barnburner duck and coot shoot in the same morning, but how often do you shoot your 15 coots (especially if the ducks are flying well)?

Micci_man, I was born in 90, so I'll have to differ to you and others on the need for a drawdown and its effect on habitat/duck numbers. I would like to see the back of the lake burned off like the State was supposed to have done 3 seasons ago, before several days of monsoon rains cut short their efforts...not as an annual thing, just as a means of opening it back up and enabling dollar bonnets and SAV to regrow in particular areas. We may not agree on exactly how to go about improving the habitat, but I think we can both certainly agree that something needs to be done, and we both want the same thing, generally...improved duck hunting in Leon county.
Steve Sutton
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Steve Sutton »

As Micci Man stated and then Dani adding more "rules" that won't be enforced, or only enforced "once in a while" is a poor solution to any problem IMO. I'm less concerned with the ability to shoot Coots or Crows while I'm duck hunting but I do understand the desire of some to do it but "to me" the real issue with "shell limits" is exactly what Dani stated and that is the tendancy for people to ignore cripples. Not a person here that hasn't expended multiple shells on cripples and we all know, or have seen, people that if the birds were flying and a cripple was down, (and the further away the more likely it becomes), that he'd just be written off in favor of the "next closer bird".

I come from a State, (Washington), that has "shell limits" in many places and I hunt MINWR regularly where a shell limit is in place. My experience with those places is that "skybusting" is not reduced and that crippling is increased because the regulation is either blatantly ignored or cleverly, (in the violators estimation of his own cunning), circumvented. Since we all know that the FWC can't have the presence needed to enforce a shell limit and since it would increase crippling "shell limits" are a mistake in my estimation.

I'm new to hunting the panhandle and didn't hunt the lakes listed this season though I did scout them. My thoughts on Iamonia while standing on the ramp watching fisherman motoring across the lake with large outboards while a gheenoe slowly made its way to the ramp with a dying trolling motor battery was that that it was both "draconian" and at the best "loosely" enforced. I can't imagine a 10hp restriction, even mud motors, increasing the pressure on the lake to the extent that it would have a huge impact but again I'm new to the lake so I could be way off on that one.

I get the impression that the (3) days a week and holidays "works" in the three counties its in effect and that while frustrating for many the hunting is "better" than if it was a seven day a week thing. My own personal opinion regarding "number of days" would be to leave the heavily hunted lakes with the restrictions that are in place but allow hunting on the "non-destination" lakes and rivers in the county so that people could shoot a Wood Duck Pond or float a River if they had that desire. Preserves the sanctuary on the most heavily pressured lakes but allows duck hunters to duck hunt without traveling outrageous distances.


Steve
Steve Sutton
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Steve Sutton »

RCS regarding your response to Dani that hunting is allowed any day of the week "except" on the Lakes being discussed THIS is what I find in the reg's, a DIRECT quote...

Leon County and Lake Miccosukee in Leon and Jefferson counties–Waterfowl hunting is permitted only on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays during the open season and on Nov. 27 and 28, Dec. 25 and 26, 2014, and Jan. 1, 2 and 19, 2015.


I read that as Leon County, in its entirety is restricted to Weekends, Wed and Holidays. Am I mis-reading that statement in the regs?

thanks,

Steve
Steve Sutton
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Steve Sutton »

Since there is an obvious interest in "plant management" in the Lakes discussed and others I thought I' bring this over from the FW page since it applies. I wish I could attend but won't be able to. Hopefully all of those that have expressed concern will attend...

Steve


Public meeting set on managing aquatic plant life in Lake Jackson


The Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) will hold a public meeting on Tuesday, Feb. 3, to discuss plans to manage aquatic plants in Lake Jackson in Leon County.

People who fish, boat or watch wildlife on this almost 4,000-acre lake, as well as those living or working near Lake Jackson, are encouraged to attend the meeting and offer their input.

The meeting will be from 6:30 to 8 p.m. at the Lake Jackson Community Center, 3840 N. Monroe St., Tallahassee.

“At the meeting, FWC staff will explain current aquatic plant management in Lake Jackson. The public also will be able to share their input on managing aquatic plant life in the future on Lake Jackson and the potential effect on users,” said FWC biologist Derek Fussell.

People also can send their comments on Lake Jackson aquatic plant management to Derek.Fussell@MyFWC.com.

More information on invasive aquatic plant management is available at MyFWC.com/WildlifeHabitats, then click on “Invasive Plants” and “FAQs.”
Danibeth
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Danibeth »

RCS- some people place more importance on ducks than coots. And that's fine by me, everyone is entitled to their favorites, just please don't try to force your favorites on me (and by your....I mean everyone who has an opinion), as I wouldn't try to force my favorites on anyone else. Some days I know I'd prefer to shoot ducks (and I have favorites amongst the ducks as we all do). Other days when the coots are flying around and decoying, I'm plenty happy to shoot coots, even if ducks are flying. And if there are days where the opportunity is there to have a barn burner on both, then I'd like that to have the choice of that opportunity rather than to be limited to a certain number of shells.

As Steve said, it won't cure skybusting. Go to Merritt Island and just watch other groups shoot if you want evidence of that. And you can also see the numbers of cripples swimming around, as you motor through the impoundments to see the effect it has on numbers of cripples. I don't recall ever seeing so many cripples in the impoundments when they didn't have the shell restriction. In my opinion, it is a rule that is almost unenforceable, solves nothing and creates bigger problems.

The idea about leaving the big lakes restricted to days, but opening up the littler lakes, the part of Appalachicola Ntl Forest that is in Leon County and creeks seems a fair idea to me.

And it's good to see you are putting together some issues/ideas to take to the FWC because that is the only way to see change affected. Too often we just talk amongst ourselves about things like this and then grumble that nothing ever changes. If you need help when you are ready to present, let me know, I'd be happy to help as I can.
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RCS
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by RCS »

Steve, I don't know what to tell you about the language of the regs for this past season. I don't recall how they've been written in the past, nor how they were enforced this season (as I only hunted lakes with restrictions), but up until at least last season the only bodies of water with restrictions were those I mentioned. Lake Munson and the Appl. Nat. Forest, for example, used to be open during the week. That may have changed and I just wasn't aware of it, and if that's the case that's a shame. The regs do specifically mention Talquin and the Ochlocknee river as being open every day, and both provide ample opportunities to kill ducks.

The actual enforcement of the rules is beyond my power. However, if they were enforced, I do think the 25 shell limit would do more good than bad, although I do understand where you're coming from with regards to cripples. My stance on that is that an enforced 25 shell rule results in fewer cripples and lost birds. Fewer shells (if enforced) would ideally encourage hunters to be more conservative with their shots, winging and sailing fewer birds. Ideally though, this shouldn't even be an issue...I'm not a staunch proponent of a shell limit, it's just one of the possibilities mentioned that I felt, given the current state of things, I could support as a measure to better the hunting in our area. Responsible hunting shouldn't be necessitated by a lack of shells, it should just be common practice...and FWC should be present to render justice when it isn't. That, to me, is the real tragedy in all of this...you have a county which now (potentially) is limited to 3 days per week to hunting on all but a few bodies of water, and yet you have no presence at those lakes on the days they're open? Shameful...regardless of how thin-spread FWC is.

Dani, I have no qualms whatsoever with people shooting coots, not did I intend to imply that shooting coots was a "lesser" form of hunting. I wish there were more out there that would do it, and I'll occasionally kill a few myself when the ducks just aren't around. Usually, to me, they just aren't worth the cost of the shell expended (I'm a broke law school student). That's not to say they aren't worthy of targeting, they just aren't what I wake up to target. Also, just so you are aware, all of the birds you mentioned, except for waterfowl, can be hunted on any of the lakes with restrictions, on any day of the week when in season...if it's not a "duck day", or you aren't targeting waterfowl at all, you can also use lead shot.
Danibeth
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Danibeth »

RCS-

This comes directly from the Florida Administrative Rules:

(b) In Leon County (except below or within the ordinary high water line for Lake Talquin and the Ochlockonee River) and below the ordinary high water line for Lake Miccosukee in Jefferson County, waterfowl hunting is permitted only on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays during the open season. In addition to Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays, waterfowl hunting is permitted on Thanksgiving and the day after; December 24, 25, 26 and 31; January 1 and 2; Martin Luther King, Jr. Day (if occurring during the open season described in paragraph (1)(a), above); and the first, last, and next-to-the-last days of the open season in paragraph (1)(a), above.

Found here, https://www.flrules.org/gateway/ruleno. ... 68A-13.003

Since i"m new to this area I'm not really familiar with the history of this area, but my understanding is that has been the rules for many years. And if you look at the archived rules that are posted all the way back to 2006, it's the same rule. I don't know how far back it goes, but the way I read this rule is that ALL of Leon County (except Talquin and the Ochlockonee River) is closed to duck hunting, not just specific lakes, on all days except weekends, wednesday and holidays. It was explained to me by someone who has hunted here a long time that the day restrictions are because of the high number of duck hunters in the county and the amount of pressure they put on the birds. Understandable on one hand, but as you say it is a shame because there is more to Leon County than just those big, popular lakes that seem to get hit the hardest.

And yup, I do get that these dates are waterfowl restrictions and that I can hunt all those other birds, except coot and ducks, any day of the week. And I am and will be happy to when I can make it work with my work schedule.
Steve Sutton
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Steve Sutton »

RCS..I would be in complete agreement with you regarding shell restrictions being a way to control skybusting except for the enforcement issue I despise "unenforceable laws" and "shell limits" have proven to be just that....just can't see the FWC folks frisking people to find them and sure don't want to wait in ramp lines while each boat is stripped down for secret compartments. Any search for extra shells that doesn't occur before a hunt is a useless search unless the hunters are watched for an entire hunt. We certainly agree that the presence of FWC to enforce the existing laws, (more than one comment on their lack of presence resulting in LATE SHOOTIN), and while I agree its WRONG and TRAGIC I also know that's not going to change given the manpower levels... Based on that I'd rather not see another "stupid law" on the books..

From the information Dani has posted it is obvious that except for Talquin and the Ocklochnee are closed to 7 day a week hunting in Leon County. Doesn't matter to me or other waterfowlers how long this has been the case only that currently there are only two places that someone can hunt in that County and I think that is wrong. I think the restrictions on the lakes specifically mentioned is a good thing from a days shot standpoint but don't think that all the other waters in the County warrant being closed. If I lived in the Panhandle THAT's what I'd be looking to change and not the number of days on the most popular lakes or whether or not I could legally leave some vegetation stuck in the lake bottom.

In the end I like seeing people discuss this and for sure agree that everyone's "opinion" is valuable and of no lesser value than the next person's


Steve
Danibeth
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Danibeth »

And you know what....I would agree to some extent about it being sad that FWC isn't out there to "do their job" in the places that they're needed. But the reality is, is that they are out there doing their job, and they are spread very thin. It's not FWC's "fault" that there aren't more LEOs out there, nor that they don't have the money to hire more LEOs. The "fault" lies with the legislature, as they're the ones who determine the state of FLs budget for the year and each agency can only do what they can with the monies they've been given for the year. I've met a good number of FWC LEOs since I've started hunting. Every last one of them has been extremely dedicated and hard working in the areas that they work. But each of them is only one person, who has to cover a very large area.

So I agree that it's sad that there isn't more FWC presence out in the woods and on the water. I just don't think it's because they're sittin at Dunkin Donuts with FHP and LCSO and TPD drinking coffee and eating donuts :-D :-D
micci_man
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by micci_man »

Nice discussion so far!

Leon and Jefferson counties and the 4 lakes mentioned (Miccosukee is the only lake in Jefferson Co) are the only "regular" public lakes in Fl that have these restrictions. Why???

25 shells- I'm not saying I'm for it but many rules are broken every hunt day but it is your duty and a law as a hunter to give everything you can to kill a duck and not have any wanton waste. If a bird goes down that can't be killed from your setup then it is your responsibility to get out of the blind and chase the bird. Does everyone do it? No they don't. Ducks dive and we all know it but if we have a cripple we respond to it. Shooting decoying ducks equals dead ducks for the most part. sure there will always be a cripple here and there that needs finishing off or even lost. I can't tell you how many times I have witnessed shots at ducks that are nowhere close to in range but are crippled to land 200+ yds from the blind that they are shot at to never be found. That is where lots of the cripples come from.

Coots and other birds in season- We may shoot coots on slow days but they are either flying (and not many decoy or fly by in range on a regular basis) or if they line up 2-3 for one shot. 15 coots are a lot of birds and I don't know anyone that shoots that many on a single hunt. You want to shoot dove or any other non water fowl bird and find a good spot bring lead shot and kill them. You don't have to shoot steel at them. I actually know guys that will target dove only at times and do this very thing.

Burning the lake- FWC said this every time they took it down. Guess what stopped it every time? HWY 90 and the traffic. the lake bottom would smolder for weeks if not months and cause hazardous driving conditions. The best thing they can do is leave it alone. This isn't just my opinion but also from those that have fished and hunted it since the 70's that are still around.

FWC not enforcing the current rules is a big problem. My thing with it is if there is a rule, enforce it daily. It's only 3 days a week for most of the season.. But many think there are some things that can be changed to better the duck hunting as a whole. spreading the rules and equal opportunities is a start.


Keep it coming :beer:
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micci_man
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Location: N Fl

Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by micci_man »

I agree that they are spread thin but this is the first yr in many that I have not seen them several times a season, even at the ramp. Funny how they are always out on the same lakes during fishing season [WINKING FACE]


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Danibeth
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Danibeth »

OH and the steel shot thing....

I subscribe to the KISS rule.....almost all of my hunting in Central FL for duck hunting (which is where I have predominately hunted for the last five years at least before I moved here) has been done with 2 3/4" #6 shot.....snipe is steel 7 1/2 shot......that way I can duck hunt and snipe hunt (and any other bird that is legal hunt) at the same time without having to go back to the truck to change out loads and avoid any potential issues....because of that I don't often buy lead shot....

plus, knowing me, I might get in a hurry if I got up late and I would grab a box of lead instead of steel on the way out to go duck hunting, so keeping it all steel for me, is a good thing
Steve Sutton
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by Steve Sutton »

A different topic completely for sure but since its been mentioned I am always amazed that it's legal to shoot lead at anything but Waterfowl over water but lead is legal in the same place for Doves, Snipe etc. Even more surprising to me is that there are people that actually do it. The only reason I can think that anyone would do that is that they are still mired in the 20th Century and think that Lead Poisoning in birds is a lie. How can anyone believe its bad to shoot ducks with lead and then turn around and shoot it at Snipe in the same locations that they hunt ducks.

Shame on the Fed's for not fixing that ridiculousness...

Like I said another topic but as the lawyers say...you opened that door...

Steve
micci_man
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Re: Question for the local duck hunters

Post by micci_man »

I know there are more local hunters here. Lets hear your opinions :beer:
Don't major in the minor stuff in life
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