Sign the Pledge

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silverking
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by silverking »

The North Carolina chapters of Coastal Conservation Association and NC Wildlife Federation are actively lobbying to ban gill and entangling nets in state waters. Contacting them and getting involved would probably be more effective and successful than alienating the public and consumers who would probably be supportive otherwise. Case in point, some of the responses you've gotten on here.

www.ccanc.org

www.ncwf.org
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BloodyChamp
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by BloodyChamp »

The OP probably hasn’t even been back to check the replies here or the 100s of other forums they posted it on so what we actually have here is a rare treat - a civil discussion about the ban from all sides. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this on the internet. I’m not on either side myself. I lean towards the ban when I feel like I have to take a side but I never straight up take that side all in. There are just to many things I probably don’t know vs average joes who don’t know jack and commercial fishermen who know everyfreakingthing about everyfreakingthing.
Fish Masterson
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by Fish Masterson »

BloodyChamp wrote: December 10th, 2021, 4:45 pm The OP probably hasn’t even been back to check the replies here or the 100s of other forums they posted it on so what we actually have here is a rare treat - a civil discussion about the ban from all sides. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen this on the internet. I’m not on either side myself. I lean towards the ban when I feel like I have to take a side but I never straight up take that side all in. There are just to many things I probably don’t know vs average joes who don’t know jack and commercial fishermen who know everyfreakingthing about everyfreakingthing.
You hit a lot of good points. I am not for the ban as it was passed, but i am for sensible regulation. The term gill net is a red herring, as all nets will gill fish of different sizes. They chose the most effective mesh size for their desired catch. I agree with the square foot restrictions, and no unattended nets, but the mesh size is cousin it level nonsense.
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onefishtwofish
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by onefishtwofish »

I voted no on the gill net ban because it was an amendment. If I had been on the Fisheries Commission (or whoever oversees) I would have voted to ban or severely limit them. I also voted no on the pig crate amendment, class size, bullet train and all the other stupid shiz that is put on the ballot. Even if I am for it. Amendments are not to pass legislation or codes. It is about the form government takes. If the group that oversees the fishery is not doing their job, work to get them off. Just a sore subject for me. Don't even get me started on minimum wage. We are not and never should be a democracy, we are a republic.
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SHOWBOAT
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by SHOWBOAT »

onefishtwofish wrote: December 11th, 2021, 10:27 pm I voted no on the gill net ban because it was an amendment. If I had been on the Fisheries Commission (or whoever oversees) I would have voted to ban or severely limit them. I also voted no on the pig crate amendment, class size, bullet train and all the other stupid shiz that is put on the ballot. Even if I am for it. Amendments are not to pass legislation or codes. It is about the form government takes. If the group that oversees the fishery is not doing their job, work to get them off. Just a sore subject for me. Don't even get me started on minimum wage. We are not and never should be a democracy, we are a republic.
Sound legal perspective. Florida has the easiest constitution in the union to amend. Amending foundational governing documents is a slippery slope…
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GaryDroze
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by GaryDroze »

From Webster's Dictionary, first definition...

DEMOCRACY. A government by the people, especially: rule of the majority.
REPUBLIC. A government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president.

BTW, I have no party affiliation, due to an allergic reaction to tribalism.
FlyrodC
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by FlyrodC »

GaryDroze wrote: December 16th, 2021, 2:00 pm From Webster's Dictionary, first definition...

DEMOCRACY. A government by the people, especially: rule of the majority.
REPUBLIC. A government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president.

BTW, I have no party affiliation, due to an allergic reaction to tribalism.
What does it say about a Democratic Republic? :lol:

Also, if you still have those Steelhead Flies to trade, I'll whip up a half dozen good saltwater flies for trade. If you don't have the Steelhead Flies, I could still likely be talked into tying up the half dozen for a fella who's interested in branching out.
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by GaryDroze »

FlyrodC, I congratulate you on hijacking this thread to serve my interests...

YES! I still own a box of 20 classic Al Brunell steelhead flies, with his signed business card in the box. Never used.

If you can tie a slow sinking streamer that resembles a finger mullet or banded killifish (known in Wakulla County as tiger minnow), that would be great. If not, still okay, since even the most lifelike fly won't make up for my modest casting skills.

These flies are so pretty, but they are not catching any redfish, sitting on my bookshelf.

Let's trade.
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onefishtwofish
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by onefishtwofish »

GaryDroze wrote: December 16th, 2021, 2:00 pm From Webster's Dictionary, first definition...

DEMOCRACY. A government by the people, especially: rule of the majority.
REPUBLIC. A government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president.

BTW, I have no party affiliation, due to an allergic reaction to tribalism.
Yes, my terms were not capitalized. Those are very simplified definitions though.
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silverking
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by silverking »

A little historical perspective from someone who was in the daily trenches of the net ban years...

The former Marine Fisheries Commission was an appointed agency tasked with managing the state's saltwater resources. Members were appointed by the governor, confirmed by the state Senate, but heavily influenced by political pressure and local laws. Florida Conservation Association (now CCA FL) and other groups like the FL Wildlife Federation, FL League of Anglers, etc. tried numerous times to get the MFC to enact stricter measures on the commercial mullet (mainly, but other species too) to reduce take, unwanted by-catch, etc. The mullet roe was highly prized/profitable and attracted part-time gill netters who were in other jobs, which only compounded the problem. The commercial segment dug its heels and resisted every proposal, even as the mullet stocks were collapsing. The MFC had some commissioners and a governor who were sympathetic to the commercial netters (political fish frys, even though many weren't registered to vote or had criminal records), which further delayed any solutions.

When all options were exhausted, FCA, the late Karl Wickstrom, publisher of Florida Sportsman, and a coalition of conservation groups launched the Save our Sealife amendment drive. Hundreds of thousands of signed petitions were collected by volunteers and the amendment passed by an overwhelming 72 percent majority in 1994.

Was this the ideal solution? No, most of us involved would agree. The FL Constitution is jammed with many frivolous amendments. But when the system doesn't work and there is another avenue available, that is sometimes the only option. There were some in the amendment group (myself included) who felt only hand-thrown cast nets should be allowed. But in an effort to broaden the public appeal and still provide means for commercial harvesters, small purse seines were permitted under the amendment.

Another petition drive was launched a few years later to combine the Game & Fish Commission with the MFC. The GFC was mandated in the constitution in the 1940s and was tasked with freshwater fisheries and game management. The petition drive collected enough for consideration by the FL Constitution Revision Commission, a 20-year body that reviews the broad scope of Florida's main legal document. The Unification campaign, which I helped run, was placed on the ballot by the CRC and it too, along with other environmental aspects, was also approved by a 72-percent majority of Florida voters.

The new Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commission is now in charge of all living natural resources, salt and fresh. Commissioners are appointed to terms by the governor and confirmed by the FL Senate. So there are checks and balances. The public still votes on those who make and confirm the appointments. Is it perfect? No, there is always room for improvement, constant special interest pressures and political favoritism. But the net limitation amendment and subsequent agency reorganization significantly improved stocks of coastal bait and game fish. Commercial harvesters can still catch fish/shellfish using selective means like cast nets, small purse seines, gigs and crab traps, aquaculture, and the non-angling public has access to fresh seafood.

Sport-fishing and the marine industry (boat-building, service, accessory manufacturing) is a multi billion-dollar business in the Sunshine State, with thousands of jobs associated with it. It ranks up there with agriculture and tourism, so it behooves the FFWCC, governor and legislature to do everything possible to ensure healthy management and sustainability. The water quality issues now facing every region of the state are a serious issue going forward in that regard. Clean, timely water and healthy habitat are essential for the food chain to flourish.
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onefishtwofish
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by onefishtwofish »

Thanks Silver. I remember it all real well and only alluded to the need to change the system (Marine Commission), but I had a very close source on the Commission. He was actually apppointed by my mother's second cousin (Lawton Chiles)- who would be my second cousin, once removed!

I still voted no and would again as although I agree 100% with everything you said about the Commission-especially being in the influence of the commercial guys at the time, that end around led to a catastrophic demonstration of a serious hole in the Florida Constitution that was exploited many times, until a partial fix later, costing the taxpayers millions of dollars (THIS PART IS MY OPINION). I still don't think the ends justified the means. A restructuring of the code making body should have been the target to stop it from happening in the future (which eventually occurred). I currently sit on a code making group for the State and the diversity of the group represents every side and prevents that from likely occurring (different group).

That is a very good and as I recall, accurate history of the chain of events.
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BloodyChamp
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Re: Sign the Pledge

Post by BloodyChamp »

I’m happy to see so many people kind of agree and atleast understand what I’m talking about. I was actually treading lightly. I still wouldn’t go as far as to choose a side but I’m basically in favor of the ban. Maybe I’ve been spending to much time on a certain FB group. I love some of those guys but I also think some of those guys are on crack.
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