Poll: Has flats fishing gotten worse over the years?

[woopty]

I remember this and I am 61 years old. I seen people I know bring back several ice chests full of trout. More that they could eat in weeks and this has been in the last 10 to 20 years. We pay for what we do today and our children and grandchildren will pay even more.

My 2 pennies...

Same age...

In recent years the only time I drift the flats is to catch pinfish.
In the late seventies and early eighties you'd could get 100 shrimp and catch 100 trout.
Back then we really only did one or two flats trips a year.
We'd get back to the house and with the help of neighbors cleaning them, everybody took home fish.
My landlord was PA's age and had the same stories PA just related above.

Same was true for redfish until blackend redfish became a thing and commercial guys went wild.

But...myself and others posting to this forum still have those "lost count of em" epic trips.
On my boat if you lose count, you're on one hell of a fishing trip. Just like in PA's day.
I think that if there wasn't fish rationing/seasons those days would be long gone.

woop

[KLONG]

Interesting thread. Love to hear the storys of old. I may not be as old but i have fond memories of fishing in the mid 70's in Appalach where i got the salt fever. Even just back then we could go out on any day and catch anything and as much as we wanted. I agree with others that the fish population has declined and there is more fishing pressure today. I now fish at Shell Point and have noticed more boats lately and the plastic navy is a force to be reconed with. With that being said, now days for me at least it's not that I can't always catch a limit but the fact that i can go out and enjoy the beauty that God has given us. If I take someone out in my boat that does not have the chance to go often I let them fish and I try to teach them what I have learned over the years. Does not matter if I fish or not, just being on the water is all I need.
My motto is pass it along and enjoy it while you still can.

[2true]

MOST OF YOU YOUNGER MEN AND WOMEN HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TROUT , REDS, SPANISH, COBIA, TUNA, KINGFISH, SUMMER TROUT, AND MANY OTHER VARIETIES WAS LIKE 85 YRS. AGO. I FIRST WENT FISHING WITH MY UNCLE HUGH TO CEDAR KEY ABOUT 85 YEARS AGO. UNCLE HUGH MADE A CYPRESS BOAT AND SEALED IT WITH TAR BETWEEN THE BOARDS, IT DID NOT LEAK A DROP AS HE HAD FILLED IT WITH WATER AND THE BOARDS EXPANDED TO MAKE A WATER TIGHT SEAL. WE LOADED THAT OLD BOAT ON THE BUGGY AND TOOK US 2 DAYS TO GET TO CEDAR KEY FROM CLAY HILL. HUGH MADE SOME PLUGS THAT LOOKED A LOT LIKE THE MODERN DAY LUCKY 13 TOP WATER POPPING PLUG. WE MUST HAVE CAUGHT 3-400 TROUT, ENOUGH TO FILL UP THAT OLD
CYPRESS BOAT, DIDN'T HAVE ANY SMALL FISH, THEY ALL WERE 24 TO 36 INCHES LONG AND WERE FAT AS BUTTERBALLS, CAUGHT FISH ON EVERY CAST, HUGH ONLY HAD TWO RODS AND REELS, I BELIEVE THE REELS WERE AKRON BRAND AND THEY COST ABOUT $5 EACH, I DO NOT REMEMBER THE MAKE OF LINE, IT WAS 35 POUND TEST, I WOULD BACK-LASH ABOUT EVERY 3--4 TH CAST, BUT WHEN I GOT IT STRAIGHTEN OUT THERE WOULD BE A FISH ON THE PLUG. THEY WERE STILL CUTTING CEDAR TREES DOWN AT CEDAR KEY AND LOADING THEM ON A LITTLE NARROW GAUGE RAILROAD AND CARRIED SOME TO GAINESVILLE, ALSO LOADED THEM ON OLD PADDLE-WHEEL BOATS AND SHIPPED THEM OUT ON THE GULF. WE BOUGHT 200 POUNDS OF ICE AND LAYERED CHIPPED ICE BETWEEN THE LAYERS OF FISH. WE GUTTED ALL OF THE FISH AS WE PUT THEM ON ICE. I DO NOT REMEMBER HOW HUGH PRESERVED THE FISH BUT WE HAD FISH FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY AND NEIGHBORS FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS. I DO REMEMBER SEEING SLABS OF FISH HANGING ON MA 'S CLOTHES LINE. AFTER THE FISH SEEMED TO BE CURED WE WOULD WRAP THEM UP IN WHAT LOOKED LIKE BURLAP CLOTHE AND LOWER THEM DOWN IN THE 3 WELLS WE HAD. BACK THEN YOU COULD BUY ANY VARIETY OF FISH YOU WANTED FROM ANY OF THE LITTLE FISH HOUSES IN DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE. I REMEMBER THE NAME OF ONE OF THOSE FISH HOUSES, IT WAS (ROLANDS FISH HOUSE). A FEW YEARS LATER I WENT WITH ROLAND OUT ON HIS SHRIMP BOAT, WE WERE OUT FOR 3 DAYS AND CAUGHT TONS OF FISH AND SHRIMP. IT IS HARD FOR ME TO SEE HOW FISHING HAS GONE DOWN, BUT I GUESS WHERE WE HAD HUGH'S LITTLE CYPRESS BOAT AND IT WAS THE ONLY BOAT THAT WAS ON THE WATER, I HAVE COUNTED OVER 500 BOATS ON THE EAST FLATS ON ONE DAY, IT DOESN'T TAKE LONG TO DEPLETE THE FISH POPULATION AND THEN ADD IN CONSIDERATION THE NUMBER OF TRAWLERS DRAGGING NETS 24 HRS. A DAY YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE FISH HAVE GONE. DARN, I HAVE SPOUTTED OFF TOO LONG AGAIN, FORGIVE ME.
PA
SEMPER FI

Great story thanks for sharing!

[2Salty]

...Also a lot more inshore fishermen on the water as inexpensive kayaks have lowered the barrier of entry to the sport.

Some kayak anglers are new to fishing. I know quite a few kayak anglers who sold their boats (for various reasons) and switched to kayak fishing. I also know several kayak anglers who also fish from their boats.

I fish from a kayak. I fish 2-4 times a month. Rarely do I come home without a redfish and/or 1 or more trout in the cooler. Also sometimes black drum, flounder, sheepshead and Spanish macs.

For every fishing kayak I see on the water there's probably 5-10 (or more) airboats and motorboats.

If everyone who fished did so only from kayaks my guess is that there'd be alot more fish left in the water.

[2Salty]

Growing inshore saltwater fishing pressure + "advances" in fishing equipment, technology, etc. + worsening ecological//environmental degradation = less fish.

So much for "advances", eh?

[JeffB]

...Also a lot more inshore fishermen on the water as inexpensive kayaks have lowered the barrier of entry to the sport.

Some kayak anglers are new to fishing. I know quite a few kayak anglers who sold their boats (for various reasons) and switched to kayak fishing. I also know several kayak anglers who also fish from their boats.

I fish from a kayak. I fish 2-4 times a month. Rarely do I come home without a redfish and/or 1 or more trout in the cooler. Also sometimes black drum, flounder, sheepshead and Spanish macs.

For every fishing kayak I see on the water there's probably 5-10 (or more) airboats and motorboats.

If everyone who fished did so only from kayaks my guess is that there'd be alot more fish left in the water.

This! I fish from both but I would much rather spend a day on my kayak and bring home 2 or 3 fish for me and my wife than on my boat and limit out. I only use the boat now when the kids and grandkids want to go out in the summer.

[Jighead]

Yes, I think it is worse. I wish the state would change the size limit. There is too many large brood fish being kept, they should lower the size limit from 13" to 17". This size eats better anyway.

[MudDucker]

Don't apologize for running on, Pa. I enjoy your stories. How many of us have fished out of cypress boats or seen a paddlewheel steamer out on the flats? My Dad used to talk about fishing in the Aucilla out of a rented boat with a 3 HP motor and fishing with throw lines and lines wrapped around soda bottles. They used pork rind stained with a few spots of mercurochrome to make it look like a lure. Hardly anybody back then had reels, said he saw a few men using them. And they caught some fish. Things sure have changed a lot.

The guide we used at the Suwanee, Monroe Shaver, an Indian, used a handline with a porkrind dunked in mercurochrome. I got him to teach me and for several years, I hand lined fished myself. Much more efficient if you had the room in the boat to sling the line. We gave that fellow his first rod and real. A mitchel spinning reel. He still had that rod and reel many years later.

When I started flats fishing, other than the guides who all had huge 40hp pull start Johnsons, most folks ran out with 3-10 hp motors. We had a plywood boat and when we put an 18hp motor on it, I thought we had arrived.

There were no limits on how many you kept, but I remember when they put the 12 inch minimum size on trout. Most folks broke the trouts neck to stretch them to 12 inches. No limits whatsoever on reds and there was no population problem until the blacked red mania where the commercial netters decimated the offshore red breeding population. A red 12-16 inches was my favorite eating fish off of the flats.

We found trout schools by finding unusual slick water from where the oils were rising from bait fish being slaughtered by a school of trout or by watching the birds.

Mackerel fishing was the same way, until commercial roller net boats decimated that population. There is no telling how many we caught trolling out of Panacea.

I have a hard time believing that hook and line fishermen ruined these populations, but most of the regulations are aimed at us.

[2Salty]

Yes, I think it is worse. I wish the state would change the size limit. There is too many large brood fish being kept, they should lower the size limit from 13" to 17". This size eats better anyway.

The state of Florida? To which species of "flats" fish are you referring?

Currently in Florida's Gulf waters Red Drum size limit is 18" to 27". And Spotted Sea Trout size limit is 15" to 20" (allowing 1 of 5 daily limit to exceed 20").

"...lower the size limit from 13" to 17" ?

[Salty Gator]

...Also a lot more inshore fishermen on the water as inexpensive kayaks have lowered the barrier of entry to the sport.

Some kayak anglers are new to fishing. I know quite a few kayak anglers who sold their boats (for various reasons) and switched to kayak fishing. I also know several kayak anglers who also fish from their boats.

I fish from a kayak. I fish 2-4 times a month. Rarely do I come home without a redfish and/or 1 or more trout in the cooler. Also sometimes black drum, flounder, sheepshead and Spanish macs.

For every fishing kayak I see on the water there's probably 5-10 (or more) airboats and motorboats.

If everyone who fished did so only from kayaks my guess is that there'd be alot more fish left in the water.

Way to generalize. Some of the biggest meat fishermen I know fish out of a yak, also some of the biggest conservationists I know fish out of a yak....I bet I release more fish out of my motor boat than you do out of your yak. There would be a lot more fish in the water if anglers didn't take home dinner every time they caught a few keepers

[Hula Popper]

All hail, FUTCHCAIRO ... not often we get a fishing report from 85 years in the past ... with handmade plugs, too, from a handmade boat as well.

[2Salty]

Way to generalize. Some of the biggest meat fishermen I know fish out of a yak, also some of the biggest conservationists I know fish out of a yak....I bet I release more fish out of my motor boat than you do out of your yak. There would be a lot more fish in the water if anglers didn't take home dinner every time they caught a few keepers

What generalization?

Maybe you do (and maybe you don't) release more fish than me. You want to release all or some of the keepers you catch? That's up to you and that's okay with me. I want to keep all or some of the keepers I catch? That's up to me - and as long as they're all legal that's none of your concern.

Fishing, catching and keeping fish within legal limits has nothing to do with meat fishermen or conservationists. Catch and release = conservation? Not 100% because there's a percentage of fish caught and released who may swim away but don't survive from improper handling.

I strongly suspect that if one could add up all the fish kept by kayak anglers and add up all the fish kept by motorized vessel anglers one would find that kayak anglers make up a relatively small percentage of all fish harvested.

Imagine if everyone who hunted White-tailed deer all left their bows and firearms at home then took along only their cameras? We'd be over-run with deer and ultimately the deer population would suffer from lack of food stuffs, disease, starvation, etc.

Good fisheries and wildlife management are dependent in part on harvest to help keep competitive species in balance and help keep species' populations in line with what their habitats can adequately support.

Please feel free to continue to release all or some of the keeper fish you catch: more for me and the rest of us "meateaters"

[Salty Gator]

Way to generalize. Some of the biggest meat fishermen I know fish out of a yak, also some of the biggest conservationists I know fish out of a yak....I bet I release more fish out of my motor boat than you do out of your yak. There would be a lot more fish in the water if anglers didn't take home dinner every time they caught a few keepers

What generalization?

Maybe you do (and maybe you don't) release more fish than me. You want to release all or some of the keepers you catch? That's up to you and that's okay with me. I want to keep all or some of the keepers I catch? That's up to me - and as long as they're all legal that's none of your concern.

Fishing, catching and keeping fish within legal limits has nothing to do with meat fishermen or conservationists. Catch and release = conservation? Not 100% because there's a percentage of fish caught and released who may swim away but don't survive from improper handling.

I strongly suspect that if one could add up all the fish kept by kayak anglers and add up all the fish kept by motorized vessel anglers one would find that kayak anglers make up a relatively small percentage of all fish harvested.

Imagine if everyone who hunted White-tailed deer all left their bows and firearms at home then took along only their cameras? We'd be over-run with deer and ultimately the deer population would suffer from lack of food stuffs, disease, starvation, etc.

Good fisheries and wildlife management are dependent in part on harvest to help keep competitive species in balance and help keep species' populations in line with what their habitats can adequately support.

Please feel free to continue to release all or some of the keeper fish you catch: more for me and the rest of us "meateaters"

You are the one that said if every one fished out of a kayak there would be more fish. The deer example is nice, but I don't know of anyone they has hit a redfish in their car. And we are no where near the redfish population running out of food and becoming overrun w disease ( ever fished Louisiana?)The number of anglers on the water has a lot to do with it. The amount of fish they keep has a lot to do with it. But don't generalize and say if more fished from a yak there would be more fish. How about if people kept less fish there would be more fish. I think it's fine to keep fish, just not every keeper you catch. But if you decide you want to, go ahead. What blows me away is the, "we got our 3 man limit and back at the ramp 12:30". That is how a lot of people measure the success of their fishing day. How quickly they got their limit and were able to stop fishing. To me it's the opposite, I'd rather fish all day and release a few, maybe keep a few. Some will fish for hours longer just to fill a limit so they can say "I limited out". Don't understand that either. The truth is, we've done great over the last few years. We probably average 8-15 goood reds a trip with bunch in the 20-30 fish days. So I can't speak of a decline. But I hear of folks saying they aren't having as much luck. To them I say measure the quality of your day by the fun you had and the time on the water, not how many 15" trout you boxed or how quickly you were back at the ramp. But in a discussion about the decline of fish on the flats, don't be suprised or offended if someone brings up catch and release in order to help the problem

[2Salty]

You are the one that said if every one fished out of a kayak there would be more fish. What I said was a hypothetical circumstance, not a generalization. The deer example is nice, but I don't know of anyone they has hit a redfish in their car. What does hitting a redfish with a car have to do with this? And we are no where near the redfish population running out of food and becoming overrun w disease ( ever fished Louisiana?)The number of anglers on the water has a lot to do with it. The amount of fish they keep has a lot to do with it. But don't generalize and say if more fished from a yak there would be more fish. So, if everyone was limited to fishing from a kayak there would be what, equal number of fish? Less fish? How about if people kept less fish there would be more fish. You and others who catch and release ARE keeping less fish (thanks) while others are restricted to keeping their legal limits. Think people should keep less fish than allowed? Contact FWC. I think it's fine to keep fish, just not every keeper you catch. Why not? 1 redfish doesn't come close to feeding a family of 4. Up to 5 trout can make for a good meal. But if you decide you want to, go ahead. Thanks but I don't need your permission. What blows me away is the, "we got our 3 man limit and back at the ramp 12:30". That is how a lot of people measure the success of their fishing day. Now, THAT'S a generalization. How quickly they got their limit and were able to stop fishing. To me it's the opposite, I'd rather fish all day and release a few, maybe keep a few. To each their own. They measure success their way you measure success your way. Some will fish for hours longer just to fill a limit so they can say "I limited out". Don't understand that either. The truth is, we've done great over the last few years. We probably average 8-15 goood reds a trip with bunch in the 20-30 fish days. Sore-lipping a lot of fish some that won't survive it. So I can't speak of a decline. But I hear of folks saying they aren't having as much luck. To them I say measure the quality of your day by the fun you had and the time on the water, not how many 15" trout you boxed or how quickly you were back at the ramp. But in a discussion about the decline of fish on the flats, don't be suprised or offended if someone brings up catch and release in order to help the problem

[Salty Gator]

I'm not going down this hole again. I'll say that what people use to fish out of has nothing to do with it. Meat hogs will keep everything, catch and release guys keep nothing and there is everyone in between. The original point was that with cheaper kayaks available more people are pressuring flats fish. Then you said something irrelevant about if more people fished out of plastic boats, then there would be more fish??. Seriously, how can you say that if you keep every keeper fish you catch? And if I catch 10 reds in a day, more survive than if you catch one. have a good day