Duck hunting with dogs and gators

[Danibeth]

Just curious how many folk here use a retriever when duck hunting? What do the water temperatures typically get to in the winter on the lakes and how deep are the lakes? I do a lot of my hunting in central florida right now and I can't think of a time when I didn't take my dog with me, but I don't hunt deep areas. I wouldn't let the dogs in the water where I hunt in the summer, but don't worry about it in the winter. Predominately all my duck hunting is in water that is wadable but I would guess that the lakes are deeper than that. But I was curious how many duck hunters out that way use dogs...

Danibeth

[MudDucker]

We use them late in the season when the gators are not active. In 40 plus years of hunting, I have only had one gator get after a dog. Unfortunately for the gator he took an angel that came close enough for me to end his pursuit. However, I have hunted at a managed area in Central Florida where you see hundreds of gators with a q beam and they report that they have never had a dog attacked or lost to a gator.

[Salty Gator]

My dog will never swim on any of the large lakes here regardless or water temp. Most say 45 ( water temp) or below. Some don't let them swim until it drops to 40. Watching a dog get eaten by a gator is no fun. I also saw a bunch of dogs snakebitten last year while hunting. I had one lab that was bitten at the beginning of the season and again on the last weekend of be season. Hope this helps, good luck

[Danibeth]

Interesting.

On the snake note...is there someone nearby who does snake avoidance training with dogs? I've got two and I really don't want them to be interested in snakes, good or bad. Where the house is, there's a good number of ponds so it sure won't surprise me to see moccassins and definitely will not surprise me to see rattlers of any kind.

[Salty Gator]

Interesting.

On the snake note...is there someone nearby who does snake avoidance training with dogs? I've got two and I really don't want them to be interested in snakes, good or bad. Where the house is, there's a good number of ponds so it sure won't surprise me to see moccassins and definitely will not surprise me to see rattlers of any kind.

Not sure on that, I'll ask Ed Epp at the cocker trial on Saturday. I've heard of plantations using an electrified floor or some other contraption to shock dogs when snakes were present, but I'm not sure of anyone that travels around doing it. If someone does, I think Ed would know

[RCS]

If highs have been in the 60's, I'll take mine if I plan to hunt water shallow enough for her to stand. If high's have been in the 40's, I'll take her to hunt deeper water as well, but nothing is ever a sure thing...on one of the coldest, nastiest mornings I've ever hunted Miccosukee, I had an 8 footer hang around my boat all morning in the middle of the lake with snow/sleet landing all over him.

[Cranfield]

A hunting friend of mine in Canada, who also trains dogs sent me some good advice regarding "snake breaking dogs", I have copied it below.

"I have talked to a number of people who have had encounters between their dogs and adders in the UK. I have also been told that there seems to be an increase in the adder population over the past couple of years, which in turn means an increase in a chance of encountering one.

Now if your dog does get bit, get him to a vet immediatly. Carry him to the car do not make him walk ,and I find that giving a Benadryle antihistamine helps to keep the airways open. However check with your Vet to see what kind of antihistamine they recommend over there as some have additives that are not good for the dog.

Depending on what part of the country I am running in I have a whole bunch of nasties that the dogs can come up against. Diamondback Rattlesnake, Timber Rattlesnake, Massassaga Rattlesnake, Copper Head, and Water Moccosin are just a few of the Nastier ones. On the mild side and right around home we have some very aggressive non poisonous snakes that will just make your dog very sick through secondary infection, these include the Water snake....biggest one that I have seen has been 8 feet.....Foxsnake....about 5 foot average....and the Milksnake about 4 foot average.I know many of you do not agree with the use of an electronic collar, however if you have to choose between a dead dog and using an E-collar for this program, I hope you would choose the collar.

The best way to keep your dog safe is to teach him/her that ALL snakes are bad, and to teach them to avoid them by sight, smell and sound. Now seeing as the United Kingdom has no Rattlesnakes we will only deal with sight and scent. Do not worry you do not have to use a poisonous snake for this, it is best however to use 2 or 3 different species of snakes to enforce the lessons. This will teach your dog that all snakes are to be avoided and not just the one species. Be sure to release any snake that you use back where it came from.

The following is the program that I use.

STEP 1 SIGHT AVOIDANCE

To teach your dog to avoid "Old Mr No Shoulders" You first teach him to leave him alone when he see him. To do this place a snake upon an open piece of ground, and block his path until he coils up as in a defence mode.

Have your dog approach the snake from the upwind side. When the dog lowers his head toward the snake to investigate it, use your electronic collar to deliver a high level shock. This shock is to be a very short stimulation. A one second stimulation is more than enough. If you are using a new collar than you will have a feature called momentary stimulation, this is perfect for this type of training.

Be sure that the dog has committed to the snake through sighting it before delivering any form of correction.

You should repeate this exercise in atleast 6 locations using atleast 3 differant types of snakes.

STEP 2 SCENT AVOIDANCE

For this portion of the training hide the snake in a small patch of cover. Bring the dog in from the down wind side. Watch your dog very carefully, as soon as he indecates that he scents the snake, but does not try to move away, use the electronic collar as you did in the sight stage of training.

If your dog comes into the area of cover, scents the snake and moves off on his own, praise him and allow him to move out of the area. Again repeat this exercise 6 times in differant locations using 3 differant types of snakes.

Your dog should now move to avoid all snakes encountered in the field after this training program. I personnally run my dogs through a refresher course each year. This is usually just a quick version of the above with one snake, and I usually never have to push the stimulation button during this procedure as the dogs want nothing to do with the snake. "

[Salty Gator]

That's good info Cranfield, thanks for posting. I may work on that with my pup. In regards to dealing with a snakebite. Benadryl probably won't hurt, but probably not beneficial. The toxins in pit vipers do not usually cause an allergic reaction and any swelling probably won't respond to Benadryl. The older protocols for dealing with a snakebite involved giving steroids like dexamethasone ( cousin of cortisone), but no one really does that anymore. Now the treatment is antivenom if you can get it, IV fluids, prophylactic antibiotics, pain meds and if needed surgery to remove excess dead tissue. Again, the Benadryl won't hurt, but probably doesn't help. The best advice I read was to carry your dog to the car and get them to the vet ASAP. FYI the dose for Benadryl in a dog is one mg per lb. so a 50 lb lab would take 2 regular human Benadryl.

[Danibeth]

Yup that's the same training that I was told that I ought to look into when I got my lab. I'd rather someone else do the training though as I neither have snakes, an E-Collar, or the training on how to use an E-Collar. I don't wish to buy one just for this excercise so I figgered I'd go the route of someone who has experience in doing this kind of thing since presumably they'd know how to do it and how to tell if the dogs "get it". So if anyone knows of anyone who might do it, i'd be mighty appreciative....

thanks again

RPS, you ever have a gator be aggressive towards your dog?

Danibeth

[Salty Gator]

I spoke with Dr Harvey about this yesterday. He said there was a gut that raveled around and did this. He took one of his dogs, but he said when it was his turn the snake was so tired, it didn't have any internist in his dog. If there is anyone doing it, there is a good chance they will be at the cocker trials on sat. I'll ask around for sure

[RCS]

Dani, the only close call I've ever had wasn't while duck hunting, but while working with her in a pond that was supposed to be 100% gator-free. I should have known better...there's no such thing as a 100% gator-free pond in FL.