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Gumbo wrote:What a relief. Now I can start dumping my used oil down storm drains again. Vegas can keep sucking the rivers dry. No more money needed for Everglades restoration. The City of Tallahassee can stop spending that $230 million on wastewater improvements and Wakulla Springs will be fine. It's just people fussing and nature will take care of it. Yay!!!!!

Are you always this big of a jackazz?

No sir. Your statements about nature being able to recover without our assistance rankle me greatly. I have spent all of my professional career trying to be sure this spinning rock is in better shape when I take the dirt bath then when I arrived. I live my life that way, too. You also made very incorrect and, quite frankly, hateful comments about New Orleans and the federal flood some time back. Disagreeing with you does not make me a jackazz. If you truly have all the answers, run for President.

Gumbo wrote:Disagreeing with you does not make me a jackazz.

You are right. It is your attitude that makes you the Jackazz!

Dubble

And what about my attitude is it, sir? Is it simply that I voice beliefs that differ from yours? Is it that I conclude, based on sound data, that we as a society have caused and continue to cause great harm to our ecosystems? Point out one thing I have said that is incorrect based on the facts. Nature will not magically recover. God will not wave a magic wand and fix everything. It's not an attitude. It's the truth.

I guess I just never considered how well gumbo and kool aid mix!

Oh, that is so rich. Show me the facts and not an emoticon. The data exist and are indisputable. It's not kool aid. It's not emoticons. It's reality. You have something to prove me wrong?

Gumbo wrote:And what about my attitude is it, sir? Is it simply that I voice beliefs that differ from yours? Is it that I conclude, based on sound data, that we as a society have caused and continue to cause great harm to our ecosystems? Point out one thing I have said that is incorrect based on the facts. Nature will not magically recover. God will not wave a magic wand and fix everything. It's not an attitude. It's the truth.

He has done it before, and can do it again. Look up Chicxulub. You think Waaaaayyyyy to highly of yourself as a human.


Dubble

Dubble Trubble wrote:

Gumbo wrote:And what about my attitude is it, sir? Is it simply that I voice beliefs that differ from yours? Is it that I conclude, based on sound data, that we as a society have caused and continue to cause great harm to our ecosystems? Point out one thing I have said that is incorrect based on the facts. Nature will not magically recover. God will not wave a magic wand and fix everything. It's not an attitude. It's the truth.

He has done it before, and can do it again. Look up Chicxulub. You think Waaaaayyyyy to highly of yourself as a human.


Dubble

No data, stats, policies, agendas impress me like a glimpse of God's ability!

Gumbo wrote:No sir. Your statements about nature being able to recover without our assistance rankle me greatly.

That is not what I said and that is what makes you a jackazz!

[quote="Gumbo"I have spent all of my professional career trying to be sure this spinning rock is in better shape when I take the dirt bath then when I arrived. I live my life that way, too. You also made very incorrect and, quite frankly, hateful comments about New Orleans and the federal flood some time back. Disagreeing with you does not make me a jackazz. If you truly have all the answers, run for President.[/quote]

I made no hateful comments about New Orleans, but when someone disagrees with you, you call them hateful and that makes you a jackazz!

I don't have all of the answers and I am certain that neither do you and you seem to be very insecure about that. I can't lie with a straight face like the present occupant of that office, so I think I will pass.

So if I trash the earth, God will fix it. Hmmm, so if I throw trash on my lawn will He pick it up? If we keep circling Wakulla Springs with septic tanks, will He remove the hydrilla?

And I do not have all the answers. That's the human condition. But we still try. You know, it occurs to me that there was this lady named Eve who wanted all the answers to get rid of her insecurity so there was this apple incident. Remember what God thought about that?

Gumbo wrote:So if I trash the earth, God will fix it. Hmmm, so if I throw trash on my lawn will He pick it up? If we keep circling Wakulla Springs with septic tanks, will He remove the hydrilla?

And I do not have all the answers. That's the human condition. But we still try. You know, it occurs to me that there was this lady named Eve who wanted all the answers to get rid of her insecurity so there was this apple incident. Remember what God thought about that?

Again, it is not the opinion you have, but the way you think ONLY your opinion is correct.

For example, the oil spill in the gulf poured 4.9 million barrels into the gulf waters. BUT, are you aware that it is estimated that up to 1.5 million barrels spill NATURALLY into the gulf EVERY year?

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsro ... p?id=20863

Now, this means that in the last 100 years, there has been 150 million barrels spilled into the waters of the Gulf. Yet, to hear you die hard environmentalists, the spill from the platform is going to destroy the whole gulf.

There ARE two sides to every story. Why not have an open mind....

By the way, I agree about trash, and would love to have mandatory jail time for those caught littering.

Dubble

I go off hunting for a weekend and you guys are fighting... Please refrain from the name calling and lets have a beneficial conversation.
You guys are talking about two sides of the same coin and they are not opposing sides.


I think most of us here are into conservation. We all want to enjoy the waters and lands we hunt and fish.
Being an 'environmentalist" is biblical. We are suppose to be good stewards of the land.
The environmental movement has as many quacks and the hunting and fishing side has abusive users.
But the vast majority want the same outcome.

Mudducker said "Nature has shown amazing resiliency." That is true.
It is also true that we can slow down the process of healing by our actions.

Gumbo wrote "We, as a society, need to start making some hard choices about our resources if we truly care about those who will be here in the next generations."
I'm with you as long as the actions have some common sense attached to them.

Sportsmen need to come to common ground with the Environmentalists or we are all going to lose.
I like the term "Conservationist" We have been handed the task of enjoying and protecting creation.
That does not mean we can take what we want when we want without any thought of the future.

In this case the people in charge said don't harvest oysters but these guys did. In my mind that is the end of the discussion.

Dubble:

I'm going to stay out of this fussing match you Georgia boys have going on with Mr. Gumbo, but I couldn't help myself when you start cherry picking something out of a press release regarding crude and the Gulf of Mexico. If your purpose was to compare the detrimental environmental effects of the spill vs. natural seeps in the Gulf and portray them as similar, you are mistaken. It has been known for many years that there are natural seeps in the Gulf, but they are relatively small in total discharge per unit area and widely distributed. Perhaps their total discharge is somewhat similar, but the release of millions of gallons of crude at one deep water location has impacts that are vastly different and far more detrimental. Add to that, the feds and the well operators had and still have no earthly idea what habitats or wildlife were common where the spill took place, because no one takes a look down there as part of the permit. Since that time, researchers have been trying to piece together what probably existed based on similar areas elsewhere, but mostly it is the oil guys that have the $ and the equipment to properly analyze resources at that kind of depth, not anyone else. Facts are, since I used to be part of the Florida response team, that no current technology exists for containing or properly responding (meaning quick response to a deep water event, shutting the unit, stopping the spread of oil, etc.) to a deep water spill, period. And yet we continue to operate and drill deeper and deeper, because the money to be made is enormous, so we lie to ourselves and pretend that such drilling can be "safe" to the resources of the Gulf. It can't, at this stage, but we as a nation are more than willing to sell out the Gulf for the oil. It's the truth, no matter what or who is in charge politically.

It's real handy not to know what you destroy, because then you can't be accountable for destroying anything if something goes wrong. Despite all of the hoorah after the big spill, things are pretty much back to normal as far as deep water drilling in the Gulf. Open season, MOL, after a "decent interval" for the dead stuff to go away and for people to forget enough. That is, until the next major spill, when everyone will moan and point fingers (and this includes politicians of both parties) but not much really will be done to mitigate or preclude another one.

EJ

bman wrote:I go off hunting for a weekend and you guys are fighting... Please refrain from the name calling and lets have a beneficial conversation.
You guys are talking about two sides of the same coin and they are not opposing sides.


I think most of us here are into conservation. We all want to enjoy the waters and lands we hunt and fish.
Being an 'environmentalist" is biblical. We are suppose to be good stewards of the land.
The environmental movement has as many quacks and the hunting and fishing side has abusive users.
But the vast majority want the same outcome.

Mudducker said "Nature has shown amazing resiliency." That is true.
It is also true that we can slow down the process of healing by our actions.

Gumbo wrote "We, as a society, need to start making some hard choices about our resources if we truly care about those who will be here in the next generations."
I'm with you as long as the actions have some common sense attached to them.

Sportsmen need to come to common ground with the Environmentalists or we are all going to lose.
I like the term "Conservationist" We have been handed the task of enjoying and protecting creation.
That does not mean we can take what we want when we want without any thought of the future.

In this case the people in charge said don't harvest oysters but these guys did. In my mind that is the end of the discussion.

Barry:
Besides being the Forum boss, you have a fine way of putting things in proper perspective, and being a voice of reason. Thanks, EJ

EddieJoe wrote:

bman wrote:I go off hunting for a weekend and you guys are fighting... Please refrain from the name calling and lets have a beneficial conversation.
You guys are talking about two sides of the same coin and they are not opposing sides.


I think most of us here are into conservation. We all want to enjoy the waters and lands we hunt and fish.
Being an 'environmentalist" is biblical. We are suppose to be good stewards of the land.
The environmental movement has as many quacks and the hunting and fishing side has abusive users.
But the vast majority want the same outcome.

Mudducker said "Nature has shown amazing resiliency." That is true.
It is also true that we can slow down the process of healing by our actions.

Gumbo wrote "We, as a society, need to start making some hard choices about our resources if we truly care about those who will be here in the next generations."
I'm with you as long as the actions have some common sense attached to them.

Sportsmen need to come to common ground with the Environmentalists or we are all going to lose.
I like the term "Conservationist" We have been handed the task of enjoying and protecting creation.
That does not mean we can take what we want when we want without any thought of the future.

In this case the people in charge said don't harvest oysters but these guys did. In my mind that is the end of the discussion.

Barry:
Besides being the Forum boss, you have a fine way of putting things in proper perspective, and being a voice of reason. Thanks, EJ

I completely agree. Side note: I have a family member whose company was highly involved with beach restoration post spill. He owns a number of boats that dredge, take core samples, beach clean up,etc. He says that the oil is far from gone. BP did a great job of sinking it with chemicals, but that this was only a temporary fix. The oil is still down there crawling along the ocean floor and that it's only a matter of time before it's true affects will be felt. I sure hope he is incorrect.