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Is "Saragossa" the same as rock grass? And is all of the rock grass gone?

Old Dog wrote:When I first started fishing the upper bay at Apalachicola there were thick masses of turtle grass all along the shores of the upper bay out from the mouths of Doyle, Whiskey George, and Cash Creeks. Then beginning around 1983 it began dying off and it has not come back. In that area we would catch bass, bream, reds, and trout in the same waters around that grass; it was a very productive fishery.
OD

makes you wonder about water flow issues on the Appalachicola. Been going on a long time. I doubt the SONAR and other chemicals make it that far, but changes in nutrient level may have something to do with it. The hydrology has changed over the years thanks to GA stopping the water further upstream, even more so in the last 10 years.

I guess Georgia is God, because most of the water flow issues have been due to drought. Were it not for the dams and the continuous release for them, there would have been times of very very low flow, much worse than what has been experienced.

MudDucker wrote:I guess Georgia is God, because most of the water flow issues have been due to drought. Were it not for the dams and the continuous release for them, there would have been times of very very low flow, much worse than what has been experienced.

I live in GA and fish in FL so I'm somewhat "in the middle" of the water wars. I do try to help though in my household…..I have signs over all the commodes that read
PLEASE FLUSH! FLORIDA NEEDS THE WATER.

MudDucker wrote:I guess Georgia is God, because most of the water flow issues have been due to drought. Were it not for the dams and the continuous release for them, there would have been times of very very low flow, much worse than what has been experienced.

Really?

Maybe GA thinks they are God. It has nothing to do with drought. Drought just makes it worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-state_water_dispute

As far as the dams and low flow/high flow periods, many water bodies need the low/high level cycle for normal SAV (Submerged Aquatic Vegetation) to grow. I am not sure if the same is true for the Appalachicola though, since it is also tidal.

Salty Gator wrote:

MudDucker wrote:I guess Georgia is God, because most of the water flow issues have been due to drought. Were it not for the dams and the continuous release for them, there would have been times of very very low flow, much worse than what has been experienced.

Really?

According to testimony in the courts regarding the water wars, from experts in water, not animals, yes, really.

onefishtwofish wrote:Maybe GA thinks they are God. It has nothing to do with drought. Drought just makes it worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-state_water_dispute

As far as the dams and low flow/high flow periods, many water bodies need the low/high level cycle for normal SAV (Submerged Aquatic Vegetation) to grow. I am not sure if the same is true for the Appalachicola though, since it is also tidal.

Now that is what we need ... a wiki link. So authoritative. Hmmm, think I will go in and put in an amendment to totally change that link tomorrow.

MudDucker wrote:

Salty Gator wrote:

MudDucker wrote:I guess Georgia is God, because most of the water flow issues have been due to drought. Were it not for the dams and the continuous release for them, there would have been times of very very low flow, much worse than what has been experienced.

Really?

According to testimony in the courts regarding the water wars, from experts in water, not animals, yes, really.

Okey dokey. Georgia holding the water and being court ordered to stop using it from Lanier to supply Atlanta is not true? Who cares what the source is, facts are facts. You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts.

On July 17, 2009, U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson ruled that Georgia must stop withdrawing water in three years from Lake Lanier for the metro Atlanta region's water supply unless it can get permission from Congress to do so. Magnuson's ruling says Lake Lanier wasn't authorized to provide the metro Atlanta region's water supply and that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been illegally reallocating water from Lake Lanier to meet metro Atlanta's water needs.

That source is from YOUR Congressman.

Much like the Colorado River, if GA used it at current rates, or even exceeded, there would be drought years where the water never reached the Gulf. I agree the Corp has messed everything up, but it is just plain a fact that GA was using water without legal authority. Even GA Congressman admitted that. If you think that because the source originates in GA, it is all yours, try damming up a creek that originates on your property without permission. I don't know about GA, but in FL, they will come down on you hard for that-not just the state, but the Feds as well.

Another source, which is totally one sided and only cares about sustaining the Appalachicola River: http://apalachicolariverkeeper.org/threats/.
There is a real threat and the drought is made worse by man. Specifically by man in Northern or Central GA. Of course, GA just cares about water to Atlanta and FL just cares about sustaining a somewhat natural flow. There has to be a compromise for both. But to act like GA is not retaining water is keeping your head in the sand. Even GA congressman acknowledges it.

Lets drill into the aquifer and pump water back to north Ga so that Atlanta can have plenty of water. This will not impact the flow down the river to florida.

http://saportareport.com/blog/2013/04/a ... int-river/

Gotta keep those Mc'Mansions lush and green.

onefishtwofish wrote:Okey dokey. Georgia holding the water and being court ordered to stop using it from Lanier to supply Atlanta is not true? Who cares what the source is, facts are facts. You can have your own opinion, but you can't have your own facts.

On July 17, 2009, U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson ruled that Georgia must stop withdrawing water in three years from Lake Lanier for the metro Atlanta region's water supply unless it can get permission from Congress to do so. Magnuson's ruling says Lake Lanier wasn't authorized to provide the metro Atlanta region's water supply and that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers has been illegally reallocating water from Lake Lanier to meet metro Atlanta's water needs.

That source is from YOUR Congressman.

Much like the Colorado River, if GA used it at current rates, or even exceeded, there would be drought years where the water never reached the Gulf. I agree the Corp has messed everything up, but it is just plain a fact that GA was using water without legal authority. Even GA Congressman admitted that. If you think that because the source originates in GA, it is all yours, try damming up a creek that originates on your property without permission. I don't know about GA, but in FL, they will come down on you hard for that-not just the state, but the Feds as well.

Another source, which is totally one sided and only cares about sustaining the Appalachicola River: http://apalachicolariverkeeper.org/threats/.
There is a real threat and the drought is made worse by man. Specifically by man in Northern or Central GA. Of course, GA just cares about water to Atlanta and FL just cares about sustaining a somewhat natural flow. There has to be a compromise for both. But to act like GA is not retaining water is keeping your head in the sand. Even GA congressman acknowledges it.

I am afraid that you don't know what you are mistaken. U.S. District Judge Paul Magnuson and that case you are citing from got overruled by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. So it is not the law and it is no longer controlling the situation. The Appeals Court said the Corp had the right to manage the retention and release of water from the dams and for Georgia to use the water. I don't have my head in the sand and Georgia has NO control over what the dams owned and operated by the Corp does, so NO Georgia is not retaining the water. Georgia is using water, so is Florida and so is Alabama.

What expert said is that during the last historical drought, had there been no dams the rivers would have been reduced to mere streams and Apalachi ecosystem would have suffered worst conditions.

I don't agree that natural conditions are worsening conditions, because I think nature takes care of itself, but I am not an expert. I just read what they have to say.

I care about both states. I own property, spend time and fish in both states and have been doing it in both states for over 50 years. I have family in both states.

guthooked wrote:Gotta keep those Mc'Mansions lush and green.

That's right, don't want no mansions in Tallahassee to go brown and down!

The case was over ruled, but it was not at the time the water was being retained. I agree, it was the Corp, but not alone. Not the State of Ga alone. I was not intending to make it all GA fault, nor even say GA should not do it. Just that it was a fact that they did do it (Corp, GA, whatever). If it were all the Corp, why the mediation? The Corp would just say "this is how it is" and tough crap.
Another site that gives this history of the Water Wars: http://waterwar.org/history.html It also talks about Georgia's plan to make the circle of reservoirs (or whatever they called them). That was not the Corp, that was Ga. So yes, in fact Georgia had plans to short stop the water. I should more properly say TRYING to retain the water. But at times, they did and Appalachicola Bay was affected. Would it have been worse without the dams? Maybe, but that door was closed many years ago.

Like I said in my first post, I am no hydrology expert, but most tributaries' SAV growth do better with the normal drought/flood cycle.