BigBendFishing.Net

MudDucker wrote:How did a thread on scallops end up being about oysters?

There are strong feelings every which away about Apalachicola. Experts disagree. Oysters grow elsewhere with little or no fresh water.

The only thing I've seen nearly every expert agree on was the bay got raped ahead of the oil spill that never made it to the bay.

Atlanta is not going to quit using water.

Now back to scallops, when does the big population study come out?

They are all in the mollusk family and affected the same. Scallops are definitely over harvested and need a break. Though, it all boils down to greed and loss of profits now. Instead of a sustainable resource and profits to come. One year break would give all these species including gulf shrimp a big boost. I would be all for rotating harvest years for a while to boost populations.

Bit my tongue long as I could on this thread... way too much throwing around of generalities as if the entire Big Bend region is in crisis mode, and as if all the various spots that dot the Big Bend region thrive or suffer catastrophic loss as if consistently linked.

Just not the case, and I'll use hard scallop survey data to prove the point. Countless variables impact sub-specific areas... massive spring and early summer flooding rains can take the St. Marks counts to near zero while actually shifting higher counts to other areas. Few exact spots tend to have consistent year-after-year great numbers and that's been true LONG before the oil spill. Red tide blooms also affected the area LONG before the oil spill. Per the graph, St. Joe Bay had bad counts in 2000, and again in 2004 a full SIX YEARS BEFORE the BP spill, followed by its HIGHEST COUNTS IN 10 YEARS THE YEAR IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE BP spill. Yes, St. Joe hasn't been strong for the past four years, but for that matter nor was it particularly strong at any point between 1997 and 2004.
Crappielimits, I TOTALLY get wanting to preserve the area's resources. Right there with you on the desire (one of the key reasons I actively participate in cobia tagging efforts) and not against it in the least... but I DON'T want it to be done on the basis of emotion, politics/lobbying games, shabby science, etc, nor if resources are strong in one area do I want the resource-rich area to be lumped in and treated the exact same as an area that might be temporarily down due to a multitude of contributing variable reasons largely outside human control, such as with rainfall / salinity levels.

All that said, I'm with MudDucker... eager to see what the survey results look like this go round for all the spots across the region.

Thank you BBG, I am much agreed to see the results. There are more and more people fishing let alone scalloping and we have to be mindful of the effects. We also have to look at all the variables of the data and how it was compiled. The early season was not a good idea before the spill, but what effect has that had on the numbers and quality of scallops? My biggest concern in the PSJB is the red tide. The balance of that ecosystem has been thrown out of sync due to major kills. What is causing it? How can we stop it?

I like the graph. Where did those numbers come from and how were they generated? If they are based on harvest results then that really helps show that the more harvesters maybe taking more scallops even on down years. The chart definitely shows the heavily fished areas such as St. marks struggling. As most of you know many harvesters then followed scallops to Keaton or PSJB.

crappielimits wrote:My biggest concern in the PSJB is the red tide. The balance of that ecosystem has been thrown out of sync due to major kills. What is causing it? How can we stop it?

Well, seeing as how red tides are a natural phenomena (even if possibly exacerbated by man) and have been recorded as occurring in Florida at least since the 16th century, we'll need a lot of good luck stopping them I'm afraid.

Here's a link that speaks to a bit of red tide history... and before noting that the reports look to be increasing, it's worth considering that just as with hurricanes, data is much more easily documented, stored, retrieved, and reported today in the era of computers than it was even a generation or two ago. While complex variables are debated as being involved (such as fertilizer wash-off), the research summaries I've read point to a recognized correlation of high temperature weather combined with lower periods of rainfall and wind as the root of many red tide blooms. That's one of the big reasons we see red tide cycles, as our weather is cyclically impacted by shifting La Nina and El Nino patterns. The red tide I most vividly remember hit the big bend in 2005, five full years before BP. Sure lots of old timers on this board can remember some that hit long before this board even was created.

http://crca.caloosahatchee.org/crca_doc ... meline.pdf

crappielimits wrote:I like the graph. Where did those numbers come from and how were they generated? If they are based on harvest results then that really helps show that the more harvesters maybe taking more scallops even on down years. The chart definitely shows the heavily fished areas such as St. marks struggling. As most of you know many harvesters then followed scallops to Keaton or PSJB.

Sorry, Crappielimits, the chart does NOT speak to harvest numbers and can't be interpreted as such. The chart shares scientific pre-season survey data where same-size measured areas are inspected at each location and the number of scallops within the area BEFORE any harvest are recorded. Gladly welcome others to chime in, but my general impression on numbers has been that they are somewhat influenced by salinity levels, which at least in the St. Marks area fed by numerous rivers can be hugely impacted by big rains. The crash you see at St. Marks came on the heels of SIGNIFICANT spring/early summer river flooding that not only significantly diluted salinity levels but also stained the waters with so much tannins that light couldn't reach seagrass, resulting in quite a bit of grass loss and the temporary disappearance of pinfish and other fish that use the grass for cover. WORTH ALSO NOTING, showing the resiliency of our waters, St. Marks rebounded to a solid count in 2015 in just a single year. So again, as relates to the question of what can we do? ... I guess pray for relatively steady fair weather (as much as possible) and trust / work to ensure that FWC uses the surveys to make the right decision area by area when conditions show unfavorable conditions in one or two particular locations. Honestly, to a degree I believe the publication of the survey itself protects the lower-count areas as folks don't like diving for hours without finding scallops, and will drive to spots with good numbers if they're really intent on scalloping. The year that St. Marks and Econfina had such heavy flooding / DARKLY stained waters, there WASN'T a flotilla searching for them. Most folks knew they would be wasting their time and went elsewhere.

crappielimits wrote:There are more and more people fishing let alone scalloping and we have to be mindful of the effects.

Finally, Crappielimits I sincerely wonder if this is true? I'm not saying it isn't, just that I've seen NO reports of hard data that speak to the exact point of fishing boat traffic in the Big Bend area. I honestly suspect that at least on the recreational front, offshore fishing is likely shrinking as regulations get tighter and tighter each year, and this while decision after decision seems to favor commercial fishermen. As for inshore traffic, I do my best to go on week days when I go, but haven't seen a notable change and can remember times that each ramp I've used have been pretty much fully busy at least as far back as 2002 when I moved here. Again, can't argue the point but would truly like to see hard data that speaks to the traffic issue increasing, and if so exactly to what extent.

Florida records definitely show more and more liscensed anglers every year. They are among the highest in the country. I too try to fish during the week as weekends at ramps such as Econfina, Lanark, and Carabelle are usually wrapped up. I try to avoid St. Marks. Also, have found some lesser known or used areas to avoid crowds. There definitely is a lot more offshore fishermen spending time on flats, but not sure the effect.

Red Tide is caused by an algae that naturally grows and it has been around probably forever. It seems now with our technology we could come up with a way to manage it in the ecosystems favor. As just a guess it is probably needed to some extent. It is disheartening to see all those dead fish floating. It seems to not affect many predators as much as bait and gamefish?

I agree with you that too much freshwater has hurt the mollusk population including scallops and oysters. My understanding is that higher salinity levels are ideal at 18-30 ppm. With that being said could there be measures in place to build flood control systems that contain the extra freshwater and release at a controlled rate?

Glad you mentioned agricultural runoff. I would love to see a chart of chemical composition of water in different areas over the last twenty years. I would imagine there is a lot of industrial runoff too.

The state of Florida is blessed with some of the best resources in the country. Especially, financially. Are those resources being divided up as needed. Are areas such as and Miami receiving more care than the Gulf which has mostly smaller fishing towns and less of the huge marinas? I Don't think law abiding fisherman really hurt the population. Though, poachers and anglers who keep multiple limits or short fish can. I really don't see officers that often. Many areas I never have saw an officer. With all the offshore changes being implemented are offshore fish getting more care and attention than flats?

I know the flats fishing will never be as it was in the 70s-80s when you could catch a trout on anything that flashed or moved, but I would like to strive to maintain. This fishery can be improved and sustainable for many years or it could get away from us if we take it for granted. Unfortunately, I don't have answers just asking questions and trying to stir other stakeholders to consider these issues some may not be that big of deal but should be at least looked at. We as fishermen don't get all the data from what research is done and when we do it is a much more diluted version. I would love to know how they count those scallops. Would by chopper and some sort of camera/mathematical system.

Replying to Crappielimits comment about "love to know how they count those scallops".

Met two FWC ladies at the St Joe city ramp a couple weeks ago. They were putting in same time we were. They go around to multiple spots in the bay (10 to 20?) that are marked with two crab trap floats. Below one of the floats is a citrus sack (red mesh bag that your grapefruit and such comes in). They gather that sack and replace it with a new one on a monthly basis. They take the one that has been in the water for a month back to lab an count the scallop spat on the bag. Lots of spat on bags means good scallop recruitment, no or few spat on bags means poor scallop recruitment.

I also think they do a grid count in the spring where they count each scallop in a measured area in multiple locations in the bay.

The monthly spat analysis and the annual? grid count should give a very good idea of health of population.

That's my understanding.

BOON wrote:Replying to Crappielimits comment about "love to know how they count those scallops".

Met two FWC ladies at the St Joe city ramp a couple weeks ago. They were putting in same time we were. They go around to multiple spots in the bay (10 to 20?) that are marked with two crab trap floats. Below one of the floats is a citrus sack (red mesh bag that your grapefruit and such comes in). They gather that sack and replace it with a new one on a monthly basis. They take the one that has been in the water for a month back to lab an count the scallop spat on the bag. Lots of spat on bags means good scallop recruitment, no or few spat on bags means poor scallop recruitment.

I also think they do a grid count in the spring where they count each scallop in a measured area in multiple locations in the bay.

The monthly spat analysis and the annual? grid count should give a very good idea of health of population.

That's my understanding.

I was told the same thing by some biologists I ran into at the Hungry Howe's by the Port St. Joe city ramp. They were going out to gather and make the count. Tried to get the GPS coordinates of a couple of places that consistently showed high levels in the bay. They said they weren't authorized to release those.