Here is who voted on Obamacare

[Jeffry50]

First of all...we live in a Democracy where majority rules...It just sucks right now because you're not in the majority!!!

Sounds like you have a public school education. We live in a republic not a democracy.

[sethwms]

Have you been to a hospital in Canada Jeffry50? You sir are a sheltered backwoods Republican idiot...and with a conspiracy theory to boot...REALLY? How do you expect to be taken seriously??? Come on man this is what I was talking about with logic and facts and you have none to base your argument on...You are BOGUS MAN!

[sethwms]

Oh and excuse me I have to return to REAL LIFE GRAD SCHOOL!

[Reel Cowboy]

I'm glad to see that Florida is joining the rank of states filing suit over the healthcare bil.
There is some interesting stuff in the form taking away States rights in this bill.

Seth, did you learn about what happened the last time the Federal goverment took away State's rights?

[big bend gyrene]

Red Yakker, IN HER DREAMS!

Sethwms, good Lord almighty... you might want to consider a math refresher course. You write, "it will try to help all people regardless of political affiliation". Factually wrong... it will be increasing my tax rate by almost 4% and that's in the early stages before it follows the path of the majority of government programs and falls into financial ruin. Second, the calculations you reference don't address the "doctor fix" that looms. That's not the kind of "help" I want or need. The CBO identified that the program will go into the red immediately if medicaire payment cuts of 21% aren't implemented and are waived by the democrats, which they likely will be... the second it happens, your fantasy of black ink turns to red. Here's the catch 22... if the democrats let the 21% cut proceed, older docs with financial stability will retire versus have the government stick it too 'em, the best younger docs are already shifting to increased full pay elective services, and this leaves a lower paid smaller pool of doctors to treat the dramatically incereased pool of patients, 60% who will be getting "free" taxpayer funded treatment, and if Massachussett's history is followed they'll use it all they can and overwhelm the system. So it will either be a financial disaster OR care is going to suck with horribly long waits (folks wait to see my wife, a dermatologist, 7 months now... you do the math). Hope you can follow the logic... seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.

[Jeffry50]

No, I haven't been to Canada but have been to Ireland. My father-in-law travels six months out of the year and has witnessed other medical systems first hand. Most are completely garbage. The quality of doctors, care, and facilities goes way down. Did you not learn about our republic in grad school?

[big bend gyrene]

And sethwms, many of us have attended real life grad school -- you aren't the only one. I'm unabashedly proud of my enlisted USMC service and it wasn't a cake walk. I worked factory jobs from the absolute bottom up... from being a minimum wage earning warehouse worker to being a Plant Manager. Took years and years of 70 hour work weeks to do it. Wife's a physician now, but started out the daughter of a cafeteria worker and a ceramic kiln factory repairman. She studied harder than any human I've ever met, and still does... much more than I see our current President doing. We sacrificed going to movies, eating out, the finer things in life for nearly the first 15 years of our marriage in order to buy our home and get completely out of debt.

It's the old American Dream story, really, and I'm glad to have lived it and unashamed of the rewards. It's what made this country great in it's past and had motivated immigrants flocking to our shores -- to tackle the rags to riches story. The rewarding of sloth and dependency we're farming out now (Pelosi says with our new healthcare we can ALL be starving artists!) will lead us to financial ruin. Won't hurt me as badly as it will most others as I've put acorns away for the long winter, but I truly hate to see the crippling burden we're leaving for our children to handle.

We can debate all day, but our future history will prove one of us right... here's "hoping" it's you as I pray I'm proven wrong.

[salty tiger]

Thanks man! Now here's a little something for you to look at. Enjoy

Methinks I'm not really surprised that pic of OBOEGO is red-yakkers favorite pinup pic!

YEAH A PERSONAL ATTACK!!! SWEET! When you ain't got shit to back you up attack the person! Very Republican of you! BE PROUD![/quot

Have you been to a hospital in Canada Jeffry50? You sir are a sheltered backwoods Republican idiot...and with a conspiracy theory to boot...REALLY? How do you expect to be taken seriously??? Come on man this is what I was talking about with logic and facts and you have none to base your argument on...You are BOGUS MAN!

[red_yakker]

Sounds like you have a public school education. We live in a republic not a democracy.

Yeah, you're right. We live in a Republic, which is a type of Democracy, a representative democracy as a matter of fact. Let's not be pickers of nits.

A pure Democracy is one in which all issues are voted on by the public, and politicians have very little real power. To my knowledge, no true Democracy exists anywhere in the world. Now, this may seem like an ideal government, but it has its problems. Imagine a presidential scale election everytime a matter on national policy is being decided. It would be terribly inefficient and costly.

No need to make personal attacks. I understand if you're angry, you're team is losing, but we're all in some stage of adulthood here (some in more advanced stages than others). I went to public school with Seth. We both graduated at the top of our class and both recieved scholarships based on our academic merit. We both scored at or above 97% of all college bound seniors our senior year on our ACT and SAT tests (and this was all prior to our secondary educations). If you want this to turn into a discussion of intelligence, I'm sure we would both be happy to accomodate, but I prefer to stay on topic.

[RHTFISH]

P.S. I know that Republicans hate logical arguments and supporting statistics and information and might even have problems following this logic but just try and keep up...I don't think the new bill should be viewed as either a Republican or Democratic plan since it will try to help all people regardless of political affiliation. In the end all we will see is more people getting aid when they need it. (Now here is where you need to pay close attention because these are FACTS) According to a report by the Congressional Budget Office this bill would save the country $1.3 trillion over the next 20 years, despite costing $940 billion in the next decade. The US is alone among developed nations in not offering its citizens comprehensive health care,and the costs of $2.4 trillion a year works out the highest per capita. So if there is a plan to try and curtail excessive, unwarranted, and wasteful spending on health care then wouldn't the logical move be to support such a plan? I know I know lots of big numbers and ideas but you can go back to your ignorance

If you put any faith in what CBO says I have some oceanside property in OK I'l love to sell you! If you think I am, in fact, ignorant then I'll wear it as a badge of honor. At the same time I am proud to not be a byproduct of the socialistic gene pool. There is lots of difference between "offering" and "giving." If you don't understand that you lead a very sheltered life. Anyone informed understands this not about health care but control of a major portion of Americana...the free enterprise American healthcare system. I defy sob stories without substance.
Show me the hordes who truthfully SEEK and DO NOT receive HEALTH CARE! Get Real! Be Honest! Your liberal talking points bore me.

I simply ask you to direct me specifically to anything in this plan designed to "curtail excessive, unwarranted, and wasteful spending on health care..."! I may be ignorant but my approach
follows the process of basic reasoning.
Any answer you provide should first define, enumerate and substantiate excessive, unwarranted, and wasteful spending on health care.

[red_yakker]

You want to do something about health care, open up competition between the insurance companies.

Sadly, that is a pipe dream. The insurance companies realized long ago that they can make more money by working together. They all keep raising premiums, and there's little you can do about it. You can switch companies and get a negligible savings, but they are all so close in price, it's hardly worth it. If they keep raising premiums and denying claims together, they all benefit.

Here comes the government option. Designed to offer another option for those who are tired of being jacked by the private companies. It is also expected to create competition, competition that will result in lower premiums and better coverage from the private insurers.

I just don't see how this is hurting anyone other than the insurance companies, and I for one don't give a rats patoot if private insurance companies start to see a decrease in profits as a result.

[CrispyFishin]

Alright, I'm not afraid to admit that I received a public school education, and I was a rabid Obama supporter and I voted for him in '08.

However, when it comes to healthcare, the crush of misinformation on both sides was so overwhelming that I completely tuned out. I have been completly jaded on the topic for some time now. I barely noticed yesterday that the major health care overhaul was passed by the US House of Reps.

I've made my liberal leanings well known on previous posts, but I'm somewhat indifferent now.

I just wanna go camping this weekend, and I'm betting that the sun will still rise.

Since I'm not too interested in separating fact from fiction, am I part of the problem?

[big bend gyrene]

We both scored at or above 97% of all college bound seniors our senior year on our ACT and SAT tests (and this was all prior to our secondary educations). If you want this to turn into a discussion of intelligence, I'm sure we would both be happy to accomodate, but I prefer to stay on topic.

Doesn't surprise me but don't underestimate your audience. Don't remember many tests I ever took against the whole public education system where I wasn't in the top rankings. Ditto for the MD spouse, and RHTFISH is being humble... he's a medical post-graduate too. Not that any of this matters much, it's not what intelligence you're given it's what you do with it. I'm not saying you're not putting your intelligence to good use... you may well be... don't know you. But don't think I would quickly get in a peeing contest over accomplishments with MDs, DMDs, and other professionals unless you got the street cred to justify getting snarky.

By the way some of the smartest guys I've ever met didn't graduate from school and scored poorly on tests... not because they were stupid but because the schooling system bored them and they had super focused intelligence in an area such as mechanics, etc... just saying.

[big bend gyrene]

To the post above, I much more trust the kind hearted compassionate care/friendship I've been gifted to receive from physicians than I do the politicians I've known. Sounds like some of you trust the politicians more... again, future history is going to show who's right. Red Yakker you say our "team" is losing... heck I'm an independent and not a registered republican or democrat. Only ever been registered as a democrat. I'm not worried about any team other than the good ol USA one and I think it's way premature to judge what the outcome is going to be on this plan that only taxes and gives no benifits for the next four years.

[wevans]

When it comes down to book smarts verses common sense smarts, my money will be on the common sense person every time!! And they is very few politicians with common sense "probably cause a person with a lick of common sense don't want ta be a politician"