BigBendFishing.Net

Pirate wrote:Where is this paper mill located?

Perry Fl. Taylor County, The fenholloway river flows out east of econfina river and rock island.

What they did NOT do was stain the water throughout the entire spring, nor did they continually block sunlight from the grass floor for months on end as steady spring rains did during the springs of the past few years.

As a turkey hunter, I can attest to the steady and consistent spring rainfall-worst turkey season I have had in several years as far as huntable days. We have caught tons of fish in stained water, but not water that was stained for 2-3 months of spring.

Where are these missing grass beds? Are they near tannic stained rivers?

I certainly don't know the answer as to where the trout have gone. I knew things were different this past winter when I fished the St. Marks river like I do every year and the Mangrove Snapper were not swarming my bait on the bottom BUT I had great success trolling gulp. There were certain areas that I would make a pass on and could almost predict where I would get a hit. I know that the trout school up in the river in the winter time and its a whole different story than slinging a cork on the flats. Im thinking about trying a slow troll on the flats with a gulp under a cork on my next trip out running the bait just high enough to keep it out of the grass. Tried this a few weeks ago with a clark spoon looking for Spanish. It didn't work for 1 reason. The popping cork kept catching grass and fowling the line. I found some "cigar" floats that might be more weedless going over the floating grass. Obviously you cover much more water trolling than anchored or drifting and trout school on the flats just as they do in the river. All I know is if I don't try something different, the results will most likely not change. Has anyone tried trolling the flats? Id greatly appreciate some feedback?

[quote="two tooth"]Long time lurker, first time poster.

I don't think the pressure has much, if anything, to do with the bad trout bite.
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Seems to me, we express our thoughts/ideas more than the truth in most of what we write and I'm not so sure I know all the truth but I tend to agree with "two tooth". Yes, it's been challenging to find and catch trout for me as well but I've managed to limit out most every time. Yes, I also fish for meat and am not wasteful eating the backbone as well as the sides which most fishermen throw away. Like "two tooth" said about winter fishing, which I don't like and seldom do, it has been going on for ages. I also don't believe every trout goes up in the river during winter. Some or most must go out into deeper water?

Conditions change and adjustments need to be made. When we don't easily load the boat every time we go fishing shouldn't be cause to think the world is falling apart. I don't kill a dear every time I go hunting but we have an abundance of deer. I've seen catch and release fishermen sit on a hole for hours catching and releasing fish after fish just for enjoyment. How many of those fish die?

I catch my limit, go home and eat them!

Good points SS. When our regular spots weren't producing we tried different location we don't fish as much and have found fish that way. This also broadens the fishing map for us to explore new areas, and as the previous poster mentioned, try new techniques. I know I am not used to fishing deeper for trout so when the weather gets hotter I'm not as comfortable with places to find them. At what water temperature do yall think its time to just get off the shallow flats? (3 or 4 feet)

not sure I'm buying the environmental sentiment in this thread...

Some grass moves year to year. Other patches stay place year after year. Buckeye has been around all 13 years I've fished this region, and there have always been fish in and around Fenholloway. A lot of trout move deeper and it can be harder to catch good numbers in the middle of summer. We're approaching that time of year, and it can be frustrating. Although, Gary D seems to be able to find nice fish year round in the backs of creeks, so some fish stay shallow year round.

If you look at tournament winning fish, they are as large this year as any other. There was 8#er weighed in RTD and JR caught a nice fish in the RTSO. They were in very different locations. We'll see what the BBSWC results look like. I haven't fished as much this year as last year, but I still fish more than most.

I think there are still tons of fish, and good fish, if you spend time to find them. That aside, there are two things I believe are taking place now that could have a negative long term impact.

1-Pressure. The high gas prices, followed by crazy offshore regs have resulted in a lot of people selling offshore boats and buying flats boats. Additionally, there has been a huge trend in kayaking during that same time period (I have to believe there will be a ton of used 'yaks on the market when that trend dies). This has resulted increased pressure on flats fish, without question in my mind.

2-Regulation. Sensationalism has prevailed and the predator prey ratio has been offset as a result. Marine mammals have always been protected. Goliath grouper and sharks are also protected, and they haven't always been. An ecosystem has a carrying capacity of XXXX #s. If you protect several hundred pound sharks and goliath grouper, then the amount of other fish that are sustainable will be reduced. I think if you harvest some of these apex predators you'll a surge in reef fish and trout populations. How many endangered ARS can on goliath grouper eat in a day, a year or a lifetime without predation? Same with sharks. I think we have more sharks and more species of sharks in the Gulf than ever. Seems like the great white has expanded its range a ton. We've got 5' blacktips miles back creeks. I can only imagine what a 5' shark does to the mullet and trout population in a coastal creek.

Could be wrong....just thoughts from a guy who dislikes government regulation, is dreaming about the water and plugging through a Thursday.

Interesting discussion with a lot of different theories. As others have mentioned, some have relevance but there are other considerations as well.

Yes, dark-stained water does limit the sunlight and affect the growth of seagrasses. Like others, however, I have found some quality trout although not in the same numbers as previous years. That also does not explain the lower number of trout in spots to the west, like Lanark/SGI and St. Joe Bay, where the water is as clear and pretty as usual.

There are universal reports on the scarcity of pinfish, a main forage food for adult trout.

Pressure has increased dramatically, even during the week. The economic downturn, higher gas prices and the federal mismanagement of offshore fisheries are leading causes, not to mention just too many people, period.

Fewer big schools and the reduced number of redfish is related to increased pressure, poor angling ethics (buzzing the flats), scented baits (Gulp!) and the increased bag limit of 2 fish per day, as some of us predicted when the FWC was considering changes.

The winter of 2013/2014 had some record low temperatures. Fish kills weren't apparent, but I'm wondering whether there was more damage to the bait/juvenile stocks than appeared and we're just now seeing the results.

Below is a news release about the recovery of seagrass in Tampa Bay. I wish we could all get together and do something like this. This may be why they call us the "Forgotten Coast".

http://www.tampagov.net/sites/default/f ... 15_0_0.pdf

silverking wrote:There are universal reports on the scarcity of pinfish, a main forage food for adult trout.

Really? The few times I've fished inshore they have been ever present. And every time I've gone off shore we have had no problem loading the boat with bait.
Most of my fishing has been between St Marks and Panacea so my sample set is limited.

bman wrote:

silverking wrote:There are universal reports on the scarcity of pinfish, a main forage food for adult trout.

Really? The few times I've fished inshore they have been ever present. And every time I've gone off shore we have had no problem loading the boat with bait.
Most of my fishing has been between St Marks and Panacea so my sample set is limited.

THIS YEAR my own personal observation is that St. Marks IS seeing a rebound in pins as, per Bman's comments, I've had no troubles catching them / finding grass. That shared, LAST year I did have significant problems finding solid number of pins out of St. Marks heading east towards the Aucilla / Econ area. Made more than a couple of trips last year that I had single digit pins in the well and had to resort to using frozen bait / catching bait offshore versus inshore.

SHOWBOAT wrote:not sure I'm buying the environmental sentiment in this thread...
Some grass moves year to year. Other patches stay place year after year.

Buckeye aside, Showboat, Econ didn't have a little grass loss last year or some grass patches moving around... the grass beds were dramatically changed. Again, having really focus targeted that specific area since 2002 I never had even the tiniest struggle catching pins across the flats until two years ago. Last year folks were private messaging one another to share info on extremely ISOLATED spots of grass just for the possibility of finding pinfish, much less trout. I hit bait numbers in many depths, east and west of the mouth that always had been predictable and found, again, vast stretches of barren bottom and not just spots of sand like in past. Even started a thread about it and a number of Econ regulars agreed that the extremely stained spring waters had resulted in a significant grass die off.

Lest I sound like I'm determined heavy spring waters alone are to blame, based on numerous design of experiments carried out during engineering projects I'd bet good money numerous factors have contributed to varying degrees... and to Barry's point hopeful the grass and pins I'm now easily finding out of St. Marks are pointing to a rebound. Water is certainly a great deal clearer this year than last at spots I'm visiting. (knocking on wood -- know a tropical system can change that any day now)

There have been numerous valid reasons the trout bite has seemed more inconsistent this year. For some it has not, but across the board this seems to be the case. Weather certainly has been a major factor, envoirmental issues, too much fishing pressure year around, especially winter, fishermen changing from offshore to inshore fishing (me for one), industrial pollution, lack of bait until recently (at least in my area) and of course alien abduction. I to have heard, and remember as a little guy, the way it was in the old days. I got a little excited after reading the article on Tampa Bay. While its too much to hope for fishing to return to the old days it is important that it doesn't get worse than it is now. I think we have learned to live with working for a days limit and feel like having a cold one after a successful day. I know a lot of fisherman just go to greener pastures when the pickings get slim but for those who need to fish close to where they live this isn't viable. I feel like because we fish the "Forgotten Coast" which is the least developed area of Florida coast, (and I believe I have traveled it all) I think that many people feel it is an area of unlimited resources. We all know that's not true. I'm not on here to bash anyone but I know, for a fact, that there is a lot of illegal activities, poaching if you will, that goes on in the entire area. Not just involving fishing but we all know everything envoirmentally is connected. The remoteness of the area helps. The million dollar question is what can be done to improve the Big Bend area in all these reasons posted. Is

Glad to hear the reports about pinfish are wrong. I haven't noticed quite as many when I've been out drifting the flats. But I don't ever use live bait, so I don't fish for or trap pinfish, either.

My comment was based on limited observation and the general consensus from many posters on here so I stand corrected.

There are still some good trout around, though. I base that on Gary Droze's typical outings in little-pressured spots, spring tournament catches and my own experience, including 5 over 20 inches during a recent trip. All were caught on a secret topwater lure, not pinfish, and all were carefully released to be caught again another day.

I think the early heat had a lot to do with the bad spring. I had an excellent March, but April and May stunk

Quote on our spring weather:
"The state's capital city of Tallahassee recorded an average temperature of 72.8 degrees for the March-May period. This knocked off the previous warmest spring of 72.3 degrees set a few years ago in 2012."

April was nearly 8 degrees warmer than normal, plus it was wet with a lot of run-off (We also appear to be heading into an el Nino winter, which should bring wet but mild conditions).

Looks to me like the weather is the one constant for crazy trout bite this year. One thing that was puzzling to me the first full week of June was all the bait finally showed but there weren't fish ravaging them. Saw a few schools of hard tails on them but not much else. I'm wondering if the glass minnows weren't among them.

edited....carry on