livewell failure = expensive dead bait = short fishing trip

[Tommy 881]

How many of you guys have livewell problems every summer sloppy bait, dead bait and dying bait --- livewell failure = expensive dead bait = short fishing trip?

My livewell works great all fall, winter and spring, but never works well in the summer. I have been researching this matter on the internet and I'm shocked at what I am seeing.

Question: In you opinion, what causes the live bait problems just in the summer?... and I have a great livewell with oversized water pumps.

[Salty Gator]

Grass?

[bman]

A bubbler airator can make a big difference. Along with some cooler water.
I know guys that periodically throw ice in the bait well.

[Salty Gator]

A bubbler airator can make a big difference. Along with some cooler water.
I know guys that periodically throw ice in the bait well.

If the ice has chlorine, it will kill the bait. Put ice in zip locks.
Is the live well not working, or is it working, but fish are dying? If it is the latter, you could consider adding an oxygenater, aerator like b man said, or the oxygenating pellets. If the pump isn't working , check the filters.

[Gulf Coast]

I have been researching this matter on the internet and I'm shocked at what I am seeing.

Question: In you opinion, what causes the live bait problems just in the summer?
Am I going to be graded on this ?

[Capt Ron]

Over crowding of bait/ inadequate water flow. Most people try to put too much bait in a livewell, plus the average built in livewells are poorly designed.

[wacissaguy]

You are picking up surface water-which is hot in summer-in essence you are steaming your bait.The rest of the year water temps from the surface are more temperate so fewer problems. Also the cooler the water is, the more oxygen it retains,so the answer is to add an oxygen supply and to keep the water cooler-by adding a small bag of ice every so often to keep those baits alive.

[Lawsup]

i had a issue with grass plugging up my filter and ruining my day earlier in the year.. hunted bait hard most of the morning and finally netted a good charge of those little silver guys, tide was dead so we hit up dockside for a few drinks and appetizers only to return to a live well full of dead bait. I allmost cried, now i run the aerator pump along with the fill at all times.

[Dubble Trubble]

By failure, are you talking about pump failure or just bait not living?

Two totally different things.

If pump is fine, then it is temp and oxygen level.

Like others said, aerator and ice.

[hughmann69]

You are picking up surface water-which is hot in summer-in essence you are steaming your bait.The rest of the year water temps from the surface are more temperate so fewer problems. Also the cooler the water is, the more oxygen it retains,so the answer is to add an oxygen supply and to keep the water cooler-by adding a small bag of ice every so often to keep those baits alive.

Brilliant!

[Tommy 881]

Bman and Salty – Bubbles and ice are cheap and sound good, how much bubbles and how much ice do you fellows use?

I talked with an Oxygenator salesman about 30 minutes, he said his Oxygenator was “the solution” to the low oxygen problem. This would absolutely fix my bait problem. I know about “Trust and Verify” anything a salesman says, especially a guy selling boats or fishing equipment.

Oxygen may be the main point - if the bait has enough oxygen when the water is hot in the summer. I do use hot surface water in my livewell. The pump picks it up maybe 6" below the surface. The bait lives fin in this hot water until they are caught and put into that same hot water that's in my livewell' then things go terribly bad fo the bait quickly.

The Oxygenator salesman never mention this:
AquaInnovations Oxygenator - How Effective is It - by Fishery Biologist Randy Myers TPWD, Inland Fisheries Division, San Antonio, TX Publication 2-14-2012 http://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish ... tive-is-it
Ron – how much bait do you consider “too much bait?” 1 bait fish per gallon, 5 per gallon 10 per gallon, 100 bait fish for a 50 gallon livewell? And, in your opinion, just what do you consider “a poorly designed livewell?”

Speaking of livewells - Another Google search revealed this - this is a livewell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livewell

Dubble Trouble – You think that if I would double the air bubbles in my livewell, double the aeration in my livewell, will that also double the amount of oxygen in my livewell water for my bait and fix any low oxygen problem might have?
Thanks for all your suggestions.

[zload]

You might try some of the blue type freezer packs to cool the water some, no freshwater dilution or chlorine issues. Also make sure scales/grass etc. are not blocking outflow water has to get in and out. My livewell has an adjustable fill valve so while it is minimal flow most of the year it is wide open this time of the year... Still tough when it is in the upper 90s and as someone already pointed out you are pulling in pretty warm water to start with.

[Capt Ron]

I want a livewell that doesn't fill & drain at the same level . I prefer a well that fills from the both the top & bottom. This prevents ammonia and other wastes from accumulating in the bottom of the tank and creating a "dead zone". Just because you have a 50 gallon tank, doesn't mean all that water is useable. Only the top 6" maybe getting aerated & circulated. Also you want a round or oval tank with no corners for the bait to get hung in. Rule of thumb says that the pump/pumps should change your water 40-50 times an hour. A 50 gallon tank would require a pump in the 2100-2200 gph range.

Hope this helps.

[Tommy 881]

Ron, Yesterday I talked with some guys on the Texas coast using finger mullet and 4” golden croakers. Their livewell is a heck of a rig. They are using a 48 qt. Ice chest (rectangular, 90 degree corners, no water pumps, spray bars, no aeration at all)… a self contained completely closed system. They claim to have been using this system for about 10 years now, year round and never use ice to chill live bait. A chilled live bait does real bad when hooked up and tossed back into hot bay water, they are 100% right about that.

I ask how and why does their ice chest livewell work so good compared to the standard 25 gallon aerated livewell in any fishing boat? His answer: it’s all about water quality inside the ice chest (livewell). He oxygenated his water with an “oxygen-injection system” (pure compressed welding oxygen and he changed the water a couple times a day to control the ammonia and waste (that’s only about 10 gallons of water exchange in a 48 qt livewell a day). He pull the plug at the bottom of his ice chest, drains out a little contaminated water, dips up a few gallons of replacement surface water over the side of his boat with a plastic 3 gallon paint bucket 3 times a day and that controls all the ammonia issue. The point is, he has total control of his water quality (oxygen and waste) just like the guy that hauls shiners to a bait dealer 3 times a week and sells them.

I also ask about the bait getting trapped in square corners, he laughed and ask me 1 simple question: Have you ever seen a little aquarium fish trapped in the corners of a rectangular aquarium? No, I’ve never seen that and they sell a lot of square cornered aquariums, they're popular.

He suggested that I read this, I did: “Supercharge Your Live Baits” George Poveromo’s World of Saltwater Fishing http://www.georgepoveromo.com/content.php?pid=64 You might take a look at this too Ron since you’re a fishing guide. Looks to me like water quality is far more important than and livewell box when/if live bait survival and quality is the issue. This is worth more research for sure because I do have problems every summer with bait and these problems are expensive in time and money.

Thanks for all your suggestions and ideas.

[Tommy 881]

Another summer month has passed. It’s the end of July now and day after tomorrow is the 1st of August 2015, the Dog Days are close and the livewell problems (bait dying) are getting worse every day. Live bait is getting more expensive by the day considering most of it dies before noon now.
This problem will make the turn and begin getting better in about six more weeks and mostly go away when the water temperature gets back down to 70-75 F. Be patient.

It’s funny how warm water temperatures directly correlate with increased dead bait, red-nose bait, higher bait cost and predictable summer livewell problems for about 3 months running.