Grass Shreds In The Grass Flats (Floating and Under Water)

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 30th, 2003, 3:21 pm

O.K., this has always irritated me, although I fished with lots of guys who mostly accept it and even got mad at me for being so mad at sea grass clippings fouling my lures. I'm convinced that once a shred of grass gets on a lure, fish won't touch it! I have not read any explanation of this, but I have never caught a fish on a lure with grass on it. This is a secondary concern of mine, since even in heavy grass clippings, I've always managed to catch some fish.
The real big question for me (and for a few on this forum) is, "What causes all this loose grass?" When I first began fishing Florida's grass flats I was told the loose grass was a natural shedding of grass leaves. Later, I got suspicious, because it seemed a lot of times that, almost all of the grass clippings would be bright, healthy, green! Only a few pieces of grass would be yellow or brown, and I figured those pieces had likely been loose in the water a long time and had turned color from green to yellow and brown.
I've got a theory, but I'd like to know what others think is producing the loose grass. Perhaps someone knows of studies that exist which explain what causes loose grass. Your responses will be greatly appreciated!

dstockwell · Post by **dstockwell** » August 30th, 2003, 4:50 pm

Some say that it is due to the Shrimpers, or other commercial activities. Research says that alot of freshwater is good for the grass and makes it grow better overall. I do not have an answer to go either way, but the floating grass is a "PAIN"..

Post by **Chalk** » August 30th, 2003, 4:53 pm

I read in a scientific journal that urine from beer drinking fisherman cause it to come loose

......Probably just the current and age in normal weather...During stormy seasons (like now) the repetition of storm after storm has alot to do with it.....Just my thoughts though.....

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 30th, 2003, 6:28 pm

Chalk, I like your take on what causes the grass to come loose and foul my lures. You aren't working too hard, are you? Mans gotta do what a mans gotta do -- at one time for 6 years I worked 10 hour days Monday through Saturday and I know what a drag that is!
I considered your explanation very carefully and suddenly it came to me that, if you're right, I just may have contributed to my own aggravation. With all the beer drinking out there and the resulting whizzing, the grass wouldn't be just shedding, but would have been all killed-off by now -- there wouldn't be a single stalk of grass growing! There's just got to be some more to this! Thanks for the reply!

dstockwell · Post by **dstockwell** » August 30th, 2003, 6:41 pm

So LC is the cause of all this floatin grass.

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 30th, 2003, 6:43 pm

Thanks, ds. I think you're very close on both accounts. I haven't heard anything, "scientific," but my horse sense says the fresh water brings-in sediment and wetland compost (decomposed vegetable matter in the form of silt) which mostly causes the stained water and in due time it settles down into the grass and nurishes it. It seems to me that these nutrients brought in by fresh water are the only nutrients the grass gets, because from what I've seen, there's nothing but sand under the grass except for about a 1-2" of stuff you might call soil.

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 30th, 2003, 6:58 pm

No, No, No, ds. If it were me, it'd all been dead since about '74. You did cause me a shock, though! I can see the headline, "Local Fisherman Found To Have Caused Toxic Shock To Big Bend Sea Grass -- Arrested And Made To Do Community Service Spreading Lime In Local Sea Grass Beds." Just in case, I'm starting to drink more bottled water!

dstockwell · Post by **dstockwell** » August 30th, 2003, 7:18 pm

The water still gets filtered through all that beer consumption and will still cause massive kills of seagrass.

But I'am not gonna tell, cause I am sure I have helped with a little fertilzation from time to time.

EddieJoe · Post by **EddieJoe** » August 30th, 2003, 8:51 pm

There is a normal "shed" of seagrass blades toward the end of the summer. As you may know, they are a flowering plant.

Environmental conditions can make the shed more extreme. This can happen from wind, fresh water, or tidal conditions. Looks like this year is a big shed.

EJ

Post by **wevans** » August 31st, 2003, 6:09 am

I talked with my pa-inlaw yesterday about this "a life-long shrimper" and they hate the grass being out there a whole lot more than we do and try their best ta avoid it

Seems that if they get into grass "floating or still growing" it cloggs up the turtle extractor and just opens up a big hole right in the middle of the net for EVERYTHING ta pass right through

end result being an empty net being brought up "except full of grass"

He says that it does get worse every 3 ta five years and that a huricane "preferably small" is the best thing ta clear things out and get the feed cycle back on track

Course he said a lot more and gave much better explanations than I have typed here, but you know

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 31st, 2003, 8:37 am

EJ, thanks. Your take goes back to what I first heard about the loose grass and, as I've said, I believed it was a natural cause for only a short time until I noticed, that often, most of the grass pieces were bright green, indicating to me that they were freshly, "mowned," not, "fallen." Of course, without any real scientific info about the life cycle of the grass, I just couldn't get an insight into what was going on.
You mentioned the shed was a late season event, but I recall the tons of grass occurring as early as late May, early June.
Do you know more about the grass being, "a flowering plant?" I guess I don't know a thing about marine plants, and that is surely a part of my problem understanding this loose grass thing. I'm going to check-out FSU marine sciences courses to see if I need to go back to school on this! Thanks for your input.

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 31st, 2003, 9:06 am

WV, thanks for a good input from shrimpers. I was hoping their respose to the grass situation would be offered-up. I can see how the loose grass is a big problem for them too.
Once, way back, a sports fisherman told me that it was, "those day-amm shrimpers" who were tearing the grass loose. I though about what he'd said and didn't know where to start on understanding shrimping activities. I basically didn't have any time about then and so I never learned a thing about shrimping. Some questions that had gone through my mind were: "What are the regulations on commercial shrimping?" "What are the regulations on sports shrimping (is there such a thing?). "What changes in regulations for shrimpers were affected by the Net Ban?" "Just how varied are shrimping regulations concerning the shrimping season(s)?" "Is shrimping allowed in sea grass beds, and by whom -- sports shrimping or commercial, etc.?"
I never did find answers to these questions back then and I still don't know. I definitely need to find out the answers to better understand the situation, so I got a lot of work to do. Thanks, again, WV.

EddieJoe · Post by **EddieJoe** » August 31st, 2003, 2:27 pm

Well, the comment about shrimping and seagrass may mostly apply to bait shrimpers, that use roller trawls at night in relatively shallow water. Regular food shrimpers are in deeper water, except for certain times of the year in places like Apalachicola Bay.

When commercial scalloping was legal many folks blamed the floating seagrass blades on them, but they are long gone.

Physical damage will definitely hurt seagrasses, with trawls and props being the usual suspects. In that regard, recreational scallopers and guys with flats boats running very shallow can cut seagrass, too.

Check this website out, below, and also search on the net for "turtle grass", or "shoal grass" or "manatee grass".

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/seag ... /info3.htm

Regards,

EJ

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » August 31st, 2003, 8:29 pm

WOW! Thanks so much, EJ. Your link to the Florida EPA site and the seagrass overview was outstanding. I realize there must be more overviews and individual studies available and I will certainly start digging, using your suggestions. The marine environment is both diverse and interdependent and fragile and humans, usually, just don't have any interest in understanding it and preserving it. They, too often, usually just want instant gratification in harvesting something out there and to hell with understanding how all the critters and the various environments out there relate to one another and how everything that humans do, out there, has to be evaluated and done with respect to the natural order of things!
This is something I had a sensitivity for, but it's driven home in this quote, " The value of estuarine regions to commercial and recreational fisheries is difficult to overemphasize. About 90 percent of the total Gulf of Mexico and south Atlantic commercial fishery landings is estuarine-dependent (Lindall and Saloman, 1977)." Thanks, again, EJ!

lightchop · Post by **lightchop** » September 1st, 2003, 11:53 am

EJ, this is an item I found under, "turtle grass:"

Salt Water Plants

Turtle grass (Thalassia testudinum)
Turtle grass is a member of the Hydrocharitaceae (Frog's bit Family) along with the fresh water manatee munchies tape grass and hydrilla. Turtle grass is the most common of the seagrasses which manatees eat and may form extensive meadows in warm temperate and tropical waters around the world. Turtle grass is a salt water seed plant and if the water is clear, it can grow in depths to even 100 feet! However, with the pollution of our near coastal waters it is now difficult to find almost any seagrass living below 10 feet deep! We really need to clean up our act now or we will not only lose the remaining seagrass meadows but the hundreds of species that need seagrasses - including the amazing manatee. By the way, sea turtles do like to eat Turtle Grass!