fishing under sail

[raywillsail]

I'm probably one of the least skillful fishermen you'll ever run across, but I've always enjoyed fishing, even when there was no catching involved.

I'm hoping for a little help with a project I'm working on. It's a 16 foot sail-powered catamaran that I designed for beach cruising and camping, and because I really like to fish, the design reflects that.

A little background info: I used to sail a 27' cruising sailboat out of Fort Walton Beach. One of my favorite things to do, during the appropriate time of year, was to go out Destin's East Pass and troll a jig down the beach, or go offshore and anchor over some likely bottom and soak some bait. I had a fishfinder in the cockpit instead of a depth sounder, and rod holders installed at the back of the cockpit. We had pretty good luck, and on a number of occasions we caught some good kings, Spanish, and chicken dolphin. Anyway, it was a lot of fun. There was some odd sense of satisfaction in doing it the way people did it before there were motors.

So, a couple years back, I decided I wanted to design and build a boat that was a little different from anything I'd ever seen. I decided a small cat would be nice, what with all the shallow water to the east, where I'd spent a fair amount of happy time-- my favorite anchorage was behind Dog Island. But beach cats like the Hobie 16 aren't very suitable for camping, because they can't carry much weight and their sails are so big that capsize is a constant worry. I sketched out a cat with smaller sails, and partially open hulls, that could carry two people and enough gear for luxurious camping, either ashore or on the central deck in a tent. The open part of the hulls can hold a couple of comfortable seats down inside the hulls, which would make fishing (and sailing) a lot more comfortable than squatting on a trampoline.

The design calls for a short unstayed mast, because one of the problems of fishing from the big boat was all the wires that held up the mast, and seemed perfectly designed to tangle lines. A sailboat isn't very maneuverable, so if we got a big fish on, all we could do was heave to and hope the fish didn't tangle us up, or strip all the line before it got tired, or wrap the line around the keel or rudder.

The lack of wires is one adaptation to make fishing easier. What I'm hoping here is that the folks who know more about fishing than I do (just about everyone, I'd guess) can make some suggestions that I can work into the design. The first hull is framed up on the strongback, but it's the details that will make or break the boat, I think.

This might be a completely goofy idea, but that's never stopped me before. And remember that it wasn't so many years ago that fishing from a kayak probably sounded like a goofy idea to a lot of saltwater fishermen.

Here's to future sailboat fishing!

Ray

[qoutrage]

Welcome to the BBFN forum, Ray. You sure started off with a blast there. I cain't hep ya with the sailing part, and my fishing is on a novice level at best, so not much help there, either. But, we do have all kinds of expert fishermen and probably a couple of redneck engineers here at Big Bend Fishin dot net. Someone is bound to have some ideas for ya.
Got any pictures of yer rig??

[AJ]

Would your rig be light enough to pole? How much draft?

[raywillsail]

Hey, I appreciate the response. Here's a shot of the first hull. Not too impressive, as yet, but I'm scraping away.

I keep telling myself, "It's only a prototype" and also "Epoxy is a gap-filling adhesive."

Words to live by, right?

[raywillsail]

Would your rig be light enough to pole? How much draft?

Oh yeah-- the design displacement is 1100 pounds, but that's with two crew and a full load of camping gear, including the cast iron Dutch oven, a couple coolers full of beer and a big tent.

Draft is 10 inches, which isn't as good as a kayak, of course, but I guess you could lash a kayak under the center deck and have the best of both worlds. The advantage of a boat like this over a kayak is that you could take the cat offshore without as much risk. The cat will have big buoyancy chambers and collision bulkheads fore and aft in each hull, so it won't sink much, even if holed. The rudders will be no deeper than the hulls, which is not the most efficient approach, but is uncomplicated, sturdy, and will never need the semi-constant fiddling that kick-up rudders require. For leeway prevention, I'm going with chine runners, or horizontal foils, which have proven moderately effective in small monohulls. If they don't work well enough, I can chop them off and put in a daggerboard, but the idea is to not distract the sailor from his fishing. So... one sail, one sheet, no daggerboards or kickup rudders to worry about. It won't be the fastest cat on the bay, but that's not the primary goal.

Non-sail propulsion could be via a small outboard, though it couldn't weigh too much. A two horse kicker would move it at 5 knots at quarter throttle. The design is also aimed at competitors in expedition type races, like the Everglades Challenge, so for non-motorized propulsion, I'm thinking oars on outriggers-- as is done on rowing shells.

In fact, I'm about to head out for St. Pete, to see the start of the race and talk to some of the competitors. The race takes off on Saturday and I should be back that night.

Ray

[Barhopr]

Get a 100+- pound trolling motor for maneuvering around.

[raywillsail]

Hey-- just to let everyone know I haven't given up the whole fishing under sail thing, I'm making progress. The boat is on a trailer, mostly painted, and maybe I have another month or two of work before launching.



Ray

[wevans]

THAT LOOKS SWEETTTTTT

[Good Times]

I think you and Chalk should race to see who gets their projects in the water first. And then you should race for real. While trolling.... points can be added for biggest fish caught....

[raywillsail]

Hey, why not?

Ray

[TallyFly]

Great looking frame. It should be a nice boat. I built a 4x8 row/sail boat to fly fish from using the West Marine epoxy. It is a nice boat. Once I got to the painting stage, I thought it would take forever to be finished. I used house paint on mine.

I had a 17 ft Vandestadt Siren sail boat with a nice cabin designed for 2 adults and 2 children. I never did really learn to sail it and ended up getting a fishing boat but enjoyed a few fishing & sailing outings.

I still have a 1985 Johnson long-shaft motor, in case you need one. It came out of the shop then went into my garage a few years ago. If you are interested, I will dig it out for you.

Keep us updated on the progress.

Tallyfly

[raywillsail]

Folks, just a quick note to let you know that I finished my boat for fishing under sail (among other things.) We've had it in the water now for about 3 months, and we've enjoyed the dickens out of it.


If you go to the site and look in the photos section, there's a snapshot of my daughter clutching a ladyfish. My sons and I caught a lot of Spanish mackerel and bluefish this spring, and I've been trying to get out in the Gulf and troll up some kings, but the weather's been against me lately.

Ray

http://slidercat.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DixieReb]

Ray,
Although I don't sail, I have always loved any kind of sailcraft. Congrats on your rig, glad you and your son are catching fish off it. If you could take the sail down(or up, whatever you call putting it away), I wonder if you could drift for trout or cobia. That would be a blast. Let us know how the fishing is with the boat.

[raywillsail]

Thanks!

You can take down the sails and drift, but you can also pull a maneuver called "heaving to" which in this case doesn't involve involuntary chumming. Long story short, you back the jib and put the helm down, and the boat just sits there, making a little ground to windward.

I'd put up a picture, but for some reason, I can no longer post pictures. I used the same preprocessor, but I get a messsage when I try to post that "It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image."

Ray

http://slidercat.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Charles]

Wow!
She's a great looking boat, Ray.

When I was little my Grandpa Pulley used a sailboat to fish Apalachee Bay. He built a boat similar to a Sunfish, including making the sails, and used dusters that he made from nylon rope to troll for mackerel.