What the heck is going on!!!!!

[Scoop Sea]

Good night, I am sick and tired of the politics going on concerning the hard earned money of the US Taxpayer and the lack of leadership demonstrated by our elected officials. Congress' lack of resolving the debt ceiling issue is hitting us hard (401K's, general stock market, etc) and things aren't looking too much better in the near future. It seems like elected and appointed officials at all levels of government are not showing financial constraint publicly or privately. Down here in God's County (Wakulla) we just agreed to hire a new County Administrator who himself had personal financial management issues and here is the kicker, he was at the top of the list of candidates. In fact, three of the top 8 candidates all had questionable personal financial management issues. Heck, we even have a School Board member down here who just had a pile of his possessions auctioned off due to a lack of personal financial management, etc. What kind of example is that for our kids . On top of all of this, our County Commission just passed some new hefty taxes on us and next week they are looking at having us pay a mandatory solid waste fee (I live close to the solid waste transfer station myself and don't need the government providing that service for me).

When will we learn that we cannot tax ourselves out of debt and we must control spending. Yes, this means cutting services, including social services.

To me it seems simple, I make so much money per month, therefore, I can only spend so much money each month AND I'm aware of the fact that I shouldn't spend each penny each month, because rainy days do happen like it or not.

Alright, sorry about the venting, I'm just a little cranky right now. Between the debt ceiling debates and the new taxes down here, my mood has gone a little south.

Have a good weekend...............

Scoop

[MudDucker]

Welcome to the cranky taxpayers club. Some of us like to keep what we earn and see others join us in being productive citizens.

The problem today is that there are too many who vote for a living rather than working for a living!

[Gumbo]

Both parties, both sides of the aisle should hang their heads in shame because there is plenty of blame to go around. Clinton handed Dubya a $5+ trillion surplus; Dubya blew it on tax cuts for the wealthy. We had a chance in 2008 for Obama to turn things around; instead, he handed billions to banks and others in the name of stimulus. The truths I know are (1) the rich are getting richer, (2) the middle class is disappearing, and (3) the gubment cannot continue to support the bottom of the economic ladder with tax dollars. I sure don't have the answers and just have to hope and pray that there might be an adult somewhere on Capitol Hill that can make the children behave because, if not, we're in for a world of hurt like we haven't seen since the 1930s.

[MudDucker]

Another kook aid drinker who thinks there was a Clinton surplus. There was a projected surplus that turned out to be vapor. Having said that Clinton pushed Fannie and Freddie to do more just before leaving office, which ultimately lead to the unhinging of the markets. W blew nothing with the tax cuts. The tax cuts stimulated the economy and increased tax receipts. W screwed up when the responded to the whining in Louisiana and opened the federal treasury.

Obama has handed billions to the unions and to the banks. Obama's so called stimulus was never designed as a stimulus. It was smoke and mirrors and he used the crisis (which his economic team believed was already over) to pass a bill with demorat wish list from the years the demorats were out of power.

I am pissed at both parties. We don't need, want or can afford a guberment of liberal entitlement. We need a very limited federal constitutional guberment!

[wishfishin]

Thank you Mud Ducker for stating the truth.

[Gumbo]

Sir, New Orleans "whined" when the faulty federal levees broke and flooded the City. My family lost 5 of 7 houses; my elderly parents had to be plucked from their roof. Your post somehow blaming the State for wanting federal help to recover is completely off base.

The remainder of your post is opinion, to which you are entitled. I believe I am due the same.

[Mister Mullet]

If Bush could raise the debt limit seven time, why can't Obama do it? Hmmm. Politics?

[MudDucker]

Sir, New Orleans "whined" when the faulty federal levees broke and flooded the City. My family lost 5 of 7 houses; my elderly parents had to be plucked from their roof. Your post somehow blaming the State for wanting federal help to recover is completely off base.

The remainder of your post is opinion, to which you are entitled. I believe I am due the same.

I am sorry for your families loss, but you are misguided in your blame and I am not off base at all! Mr. Gumbo, I have relatives in Louisiana and I have friends who have been in business in New Orleans for nearly 30 years. You point the blame at the Corp, but fail to mention that the levy maintenance money was controlled by local committees who used the money for everything other than the levies.

Here are some facts you can not dispute:

1. Your parents should have left when they were warned to leave and they would not have had to be plucked from the roof. Friends of mine from Moody AFB Rescue put themselves in danger to pluck those people off and took fire from drug dealers.

2. The mayor should have implemented a plan of evacuation, instead, New Orleaneans gathered to drink and have a hurricane party.

3. The federal government had no business ever building those levies in the first place or more correctly, for beefing them up from their original faulty design from locals. Those levies were built with earmarked funds.

4. Levy maintenance money was controlled by local committees who used the money for everything other than the levies, including the construction of casinos and just plain theft by committee members.

5. The corp told everyone that those levies would not withstand a class 3 or above hurricane. They withheld more than advertised.

6. It was stupid to allow expansion of housing below sea level.

So, I'm sorry, but yes, New Orleans was a local/state problem, not a federal problem and W gave into the liberal whining to throw money at it.

[Gumbo]

Yes, my folks absolutely should have left. They refused to. Survivor syndrome, it's called, they had made it through storms for 75 years and thought they'd make it through another.

I do not agree at all with the rest of your "facts." The 17th Street Canal breach was caused by faulty construction and design by the Corps, not some drunken, gambling local committee.

Your pointing the finger of blame for everything wrong in this country at liberals and the President is based in your ideology, not facts.

[tin can]

I hate politics. I have never responded to a politically based thread. But I have to throw my semi non political $.02 worth in on this one.

The only difference in what happened as a result of Katrina and any other hurricane is the magnitude of the damage. Most people in an area subject to flooding either don't have an understanding of the possibilities of flood damage, or choose to take their chances. Gumbo, the decision your parents made is not uncommon, especially among the older population.

The fact is every civil engineering project I have ever been a part of was controlled by politicians and money. At our local level it takes between 8 and 12 years for a project to go from conception to final design approval. After conception of a project the next step is a "Study" to determine a budget. This usually takes about a year for a major project. Once the budget is set the remaining years of design are spent trying to satisfy every ones ideas of what the final result of the project should be. This portion always goes over budget. As a result the construction phase gets scaled back. Now the project goes to bid for construction. The job is awarded to the lowest bidder. Knowing how government works the lowest bidder intentionally under bid the job. During the construction phase the contractor submits change orders to cover his costs. The decision has to be made to approve the change order or cut back in some other area of construction to stay within budget. Even with corner cutting the construction phase almost always goes over budget. Now, the biggest problem with this system is no one wants to discuss or disclose what it will cost to maintain a project for several hundred years. Therefore money is not budgeted for maintenance and must be found elsewhere. That's the way it's done in America.

The Corps designed the levee system around New Orleans to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane............when it was constructed. There were many known maintenance issues before Katrina.It was publicized that if Katrina made landfall at greater than a Cat 3 storm the city would flood. A lot of folks left. Some chose to stay. Some could not leave for many reasons. The result was the largest natural disaster in America's short history. Who is to blame? I think you have to go back a few hundred years. People with political influence and money got what they wanted and built a port city below sea level.

You can't beat Mother Nature.

[Sun Daze]

Scoop I feel your pain! Our commission voted last night to put all local garbage collecting companies out of business and charge us citizens for the priviledge of putting said companies out of business!!

They also awarded a $17,000 (NO BID) bulk mail project to a company in Tallahassee, when my wife and I own a company in Crawfordville that provides this exact service. My wife was at the commission meeting last night, expressed to them that a local company should get the work over an out of county firm, and that we could do it FOR LESS!! Didn't phase them one bit! I helped put 4 of the 5 commissioners into office and this is how they reward our votes??

I'm sooooo thoroughly disgusted with our commissions actions I could chew barbed wire and spit nails!

How our local commissioners could vote the way they did is far beyond my comprehension!! That's OK... All of this will be remembered come election time!

[MudDucker]

Yes, my folks absolutely should have left. They refused to. Survivor syndrome, it's called, they had made it through storms for 75 years and thought they'd make it through another.

I do not agree at all with the rest of your "facts." The 17th Street Canal breach was caused by faulty construction and design by the Corps, not some drunken, gambling local committee.

Your pointing the finger of blame for everything wrong in this country at liberals and the President is based in your ideology, not facts.

My facts come from local folks, not political ideology. The 17th street canal was built LONG before the Corps had anything to do with New Orleans. They did work on strengthening it. You seem to forget that a barge got loose and damaged the levy as well and the breech started at that point of damage.

The committees were not drunken, they were corrupt.

As I've heard it said so many times, you are entitled to your opinions, but not your facts.

[Scoop Sea]

Scoop I feel your pain! Our commission voted last night to put all local garbage collecting companies out of business and charge us citizens for the priviledge of putting said companies out of business!!

They also awarded a $17,000 (NO BID) bulk mail project to a company in Tallahassee, when my wife and I own a company in Crawfordville that provides this exact service. My wife was at the commission meeting last night, expressed to them that a local company should get the work over an out of county firm, and that we could do it FOR LESS!! Didn't phase them one bit! I helped put 4 of the 5 commissioners into office and this is how they reward our votes??

I'm sooooo thoroughly disgusted with our commissions actions I could chew barbed wire and spit nails!

How our local commissioners could vote the way they did is far beyond my comprehension!! That's OK... All of this will be remembered come election time!

Hey Sun Daze, I was afraid they were going to vote that way. Unfortunately, I am out of town on a response or I would have gone and voiced my opinion. That's just total BS in my opinion, you already have local haulers that are from the County and pay taxes in the county, etc, etc. Now we will get some out of County garbage company that doesn't give a flip about Wakulla and we will be stuck with them (and I bet the price goes up).

As for going outside the County for a mailing service when we have one here that just peeves me. I am sure if you follow the money trail, somebody knew somebody, etc. I agree, we will have to remember this in the future elections. To be honest, some of our Commissioners are just plain embarrassing.

If it makes you feel any better, my wife refers to your business (assuming it's located right next to MJ's) as "my other office", as I do all my mailing and shipping for work there.

As for the New Orleans portion of this thread, here's my quick limited two cents: Folks should have gotten out when advised, plain and simple (that being said, I can't think of one hurricane I have evacuated for in my life, outside of Hurricane Andrew as I was in the Keys when he was coming). I would also say, N.O. had a flood, but Mississippi had a hurricane. Most folks in New Orleans came home to flooded homes, where as a lot of the folks in Mississippi didn't have that option.

[Gumbo]

Okay, sir, you whiffed again.

1. There was no barge impact on the 17th Street Canal. There was a barge impact on the Industrial Canal, on the other (east) side of town. A barge could not even fit in the 17th Street Canal. And the final reports are inconclusive as to whether the barge impact caused the IC breach or the walls had already been over-topped.

2. The 17th Street Canal breach was due to the supports for the walls being driven into soft peat and not a solid base. And the Corps designed the walls.

3. By the way, do you know that the Corps office in New Orleans is on a levee on Leake Avenue? Ironic, eh?

My facts are facts. I'm from New Orleans and my wife and I spent months assisting in clean-up efforts (not once being shot at by drug dealers, for what that's worth). With my oldest brother's military clearance, we were in the neighborhood when the Guard still had it blocked to the public. My middle brother was in our family boat rescuing people the day after the flood. I watched body bags being taken out of houses. I have read every report prepared following the flood that I could find. I know the facts better than most because this was a life-changing event.

But I'm sure nothing will change your opinion and I don't know why I'm wasting the energy to even try.

And, for future reference, the things that hold back water are levees, not a levy or levies. And levees breach; babies breech.

[MudDucker]

Okay, sir, you whiffed again.

1. There was no barge impact on the 17th Street Canal. There was a barge impact on the Industrial Canal, on the other (east) side of town. A barge could not even fit in the 17th Street Canal. And the final reports are inconclusive as to whether the barge impact caused the IC breach or the walls had already been over-topped.

2. The 17th Street Canal breach was due to the supports for the walls being driven into soft peat and not a solid base. And the Corps designed the walls.

3. By the way, do you know that the Corps office in New Orleans is on a levee on Leake Avenue? Ironic, eh?

My facts are facts. I'm from New Orleans and my wife and I spent months assisting in clean-up efforts (not once being shot at by drug dealers, for what that's worth). With my oldest brother's military clearance, we were in the neighborhood when the Guard still had it blocked to the public. My middle brother was in our family boat rescuing people the day after the flood. I watched body bags being taken out of houses. I have read every report prepared following the flood that I could find. I know the facts better than most because this was a life-changing event.

But I'm sure nothing will change your opinion and I don't know why I'm wasting the energy to even try.

And, for future reference, the things that hold back water are levees, not a levy or levies. And levees breach; babies breech.

You are correct, I checked and the barge contact was in the industrial canal.

The corps designed what they thought would "strengthen" the 17th street levee, but always said that NOTHING they did would sustain beyond a Cat 3. Historical records indicate that this canal and levee was started in 1850 and it was not designed by the corps. This is not even the jurisdiction of the corps, but pressure from members of congress from Louisiana over the years put the corp in there to do their pork barrel projects.

Nearly all of New Orleans lies on a bed of peat and muck. Nearly all of New Orleans other than the area around the French Quarter is below sea level. That is why it is senseless to be building levees (happy now) there to try to allow people to live in a swamp below sea level.

Putting your office on a levee that is above sea level is pretty smart in my opinion.

I don't understand why folks in New Orleans want to blame their own dumb choices on the federal government. There is enough blame to go around for the federal government, but what happened in New Orleans before and after the storm was due to decision made primarily by local folks!