Labrador Retriever Seizures

[big bend gyrene]

Sure many board members have owned labrador retrievers. Question for those who have -- anyone have one (or more) labs that have experienced seizures?

Have a male who we rescued as a young dog six years ago and by my best guess is 7 or at the very oldest 8.

About a year ago, my wife and I heard him whimpering and ran to his side, only to find him locked with his back arched, legs somewhat folded in, completely unable to get up (though desperately trying to do so). We feared he was having some cardiac event and would die at any second. In addition to the somewhat locked seizure position he became obviously panicked, with rushed/forced breathing, tremoring muscles, and with water dripping from his nose. After what was likely 5 to 10 minutes but felt like hours of us cradling him, we could feel him easing out of the seizure, and after a bit of recovery he stood, walked outside without any obvious difficulty and was running around barking in the dark (very normal behavior) soon thereafter.

Well, since the first seizure, he's experienced at least two more very similar seizures with multiple months between each (at least those we've been home to witness in the evenings). He never loses complete consciousness, and within 10 minutes or so of the seizures passing he's completely mobile again (though does seem like it takes a few minutes for his mind to clear/gain confidence in his gait).

After the first seizure we took him to a vet who said his blood work was normal / who didn't find any obvious issues. Used to losing Great Danes at about the same age but really would like to keep this lab as healthy as possible and around a while longer if I can. Any personal stories/lessons learned/tips from anyone who may have experienced the same type of episodes will be VERY much appreciated.

BBG

[Salty Gator]

First let me say im sorry you are dealing wih this. Watching your buddy have a seizure is terrible. Any dog can have epilepsy. Chocolate labs seem to have epilepsy a little more than yellows or blacks. Bbg, there is too much info about the different causes of seizures for me to put on his thread. Your veterinarian is better to answer these questions, and that is what you pay him/her for. I suggest you get in touch with your vet and have them explain this to you. If you don't understand, it isn't your fault, it is the veterinarians fault. Part of our job is to make you understand these things. If you would like to call me, I'll send a pm with my phone number. If you use Dr Pliscan(sp) in montecello, then I'm sure he can explain it to you. As a general rule we treat seizures if they have more than one per month. Or if they have cluster seizures. I hope this helps

[big bend gyrene]

Salty Gator, our first trip to the vet was after the initial observed seizure so can't much blame the vet for not treating more aggressively as we didn't yet know the frequency. As I shared he did run blood-work to see if he could find anything majorly amiss as blood-work systems go.

And again, as best we can confirm from our evenings with him (each and every night together with him in the home) the spacing to date has been more than a month apart... more like 3 or 4 months between seizures.

He's a yellow lab, but as a rescue dog, can't speak to his lineage/exact genetics. What I can share is that we definitely didn't note any seizure issues whatsoever until age 6. And while the seizures are tough to witness, we appreciate they aren't as severe as many can be -- no loss of consciousness/chomping/salivating/urinating/defecating, etc. Seems like his are what I as a layman would characterize as about half-way between a focal and grand mal seizure. On a positive note, he doesn't seem to be showing issues of neurological/other system concerns outside the very seizures themselves (not seeing general changes in behavior, difficulty walking, circling, etc when he's not having seizures).

Do much appreciate the reply and will keep a continuing close watch on the frequency, and talk treatment options (know of several of the pharmaceutical ones) with the vet if the frequency or severity increase. With the wife a physician, we both read up on all the relevant journal articles we could find online when he had his first seizure. Much of my reason for posting was out of a sincere desire to learn how common other lab-owning board members have found the problem to be, and to hear a bit about their experiences regarding age of onset, frequency, and their feedback on the efficacy of treatments used.

MUCH appreciate the reply.

[Rhettley]

I'm sorry to hear about your dogs problems. I've owned two labs, one chocolate and one black, and a chessie that all died of old age. Now I have two drop off dogs that I'm pretty sure are half lab and half German shorthair pointers (there's a plantation near the house in Baker county that breeds both). They are about 5 now. I've never witnessed any of them have a seizure.

[Salty Gator]

10-4 bbg. I wasn't suggesting that your veterinarian did anything wrong or was less than thorough. It sounds like the same work up I do for a first time seizure. But your vet should be equipped to answer any question you have. I also have a lab that had one seizire( in a dove field) and never had another. The only issue I would recommend you discuss with a professional is the fact that he had his first seizure so late in life. Usually with epilepsy it starts when they are younger. The fact that the seizures are more in line with what md's refer to as petit mal seizures may be encouraging. I know it is tough, but these dogs usually do well on medication if it comes to that. Good luck, please let me know if I can help in any way. Also be aware that there are veterinary neurologist that you could be referred to if you want to have a specialist involved.

[Squirm88]

I have two labs that I run field trials and hunt tests with. I am very familiar with labs and their predisposed conditions.

If the dog is not losing consciousness and returns to normal shortly after the incident there is a very good chance the dog has EIC. This is especially true if it is only affecting his rear end or rear legs. To be honest most vets don't know much about hereditary conditions in dogs. The vet may have never heard of EIC or CNM. The University of Minnesota has led the research on EIC and has developed a laboratory tests for dogs. You can mail in a cheek swab to the University and they can test for the condition.

Click here for more information:
http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/cani ... /home.html

Take a look at this video and see if the symptoms are similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFOZoVT9aUo

Feel free to PM me if you need more info.

[Salty Gator]

Not a bad thought squirm, but I think EIC would have showed up before now. You usually diagnose that in young dogs when they start to really exercise. And the difference is that with EIC their mentation remains completely normal. More like being temporarily paralyzed. It may be different than not completely loosing consciousness. Worth looking into by all means

[waterman]

I also had a black lab that did what yours was doing. It did not start until we started useing the flea drops that you put on the skin. Every time we would use this he would have a reaction. After we stopped with the drops to see if this was causeing it he never had another one.

[Salty Gator]

Another syndrome I was reading about this morning that could be applicable.
Familial reflex myoclonus. A familial disease seen in young labs. It is a repetitive rhythmic contractions of skeletal muscles, usually followed by extensor muscle rigidity and opisthotonos (spasm when head and tail are bent upwards and abdomen bowed downward) It can also be caused by previous distemper virus infection.

Just something to think about and run by your vet if y'all think think it is worth looking into.

[big bend gyrene]

Salty Gator, if I had to put money on it I would bet epilepsy, but then again I'm admittedly not a vet. Fairly certain it's not EIC, because the seizures seem to be hitting consistently late in the evening in an admittedly lazy middle-aged lab that's not suffering from any overexertion before the seizures. Also, the video shows the black lab appearing to have momentary paralysis in his back legs, but without a number of the other symptoms we've witnessed, such as clenched jaw, locked front legs, etc.

Actually HAD considered the spot treatment drop theory after his first event, as we had just applied drops a few days before, but with two subsequent seizures spaced over a month apart and with no more drops applied, increasingly doubtful that's the biggest issue.

Took time to watch the reflex myoclonus video and kind of doubtful that's it either. Looked way more rhythmic than what we're seeing.

What our dog, Amos, is experiencing is somewhat close to this... though Amos whines a good deal a minute or so before it hits, is a bit more rigid than the dog in the video (front legs and jaw), pants more, and doesn't rock quite as much. Amos definitely appears a bit more "panicked", but unlike many of the other videos I've now viewed, he's not having severe paddling of the legs, isn't having eyes rolling back, urinating, or other more severe symptoms, though again he does appear slightly disoriented towards the end of the seizure events and it takes a couple of minutes after he is mobile again to appear completely clear-headed/normal.

No seizure since I originally posted, but if I'm quick enough to think about I'll try to capture video if / when it happens again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfQivcd66DE[/video]

[Salty Gator]

The dog in the video is not typical of a dog w generalized seizures. But what u described Amos as having seems more in line with what is "typical". I hope you never have the opportunity to video another seizure

Also, just to be on be safe side, don't reapply the spot treatment you were using and don't use Comfortis or trifexis for flea control( we don't use those in any dog w possible epilepsy). Good luck

[beekeeper]

Our Black Male LAB has had siezures like this for years, now less severe.

he is now 9 years old,. 1st one happened that we saw when he was 1.5 year old - we have learned to let him "work it out" as to not make him any more anxious by freaking out...the more attention he is given during, the more severe they become - almost like he fights it harder having a negative effect. use to be 30 minutes +, now about 5-7 minutes max

sorry your dog is having em too - it is sad to see, but Doc tells me they don't remember em