Interesting articles on global warming

[Salty Gator]

I can assure you I am no liberal, but am convinced of the science supporting global warming. Seriously I didn't know it was even a question. Anyone can find " studies" supporting whatever they want. Peer reviewed Journals are where scientists get their information and form opinions.

[wevans]

Global warming and global cooling has occurred for as long as our knowledge can decipher from the Earth. It is the matter of how much affect we puny humans have on it that I find to be questionable. I think that we tend to think more highly of ourselves as a race than we should get credit for and to think that we "as a race" can have such a profound affect on the Earth is highly questionable

[Salty Gator]

Global warming and global cooling has occurred for as long as our knowledge can decipher from the Earth. It is the matter of how much affect we puny humans have on it that I find to be questionable. I think that we tend to think more highly of ourselves as a race than we should get credit for and to think that we "as a race" can have such a profound affect on the Earth is highly questionable

Have you "seen" the air in china?

[big bend gyrene]

Global warming and global cooling has occurred for as long as our knowledge can decipher from the Earth. It is the matter of how much affect we puny humans have on it that I find to be questionable. I think that we tend to think more highly of ourselves as a race than we should get credit for and to think that we "as a race" can have such a profound affect on the Earth is highly questionable

Have you "seen" the air in china?

You're not helping the cause, Salty Gator, at least not for a US tax confiscation solution, as even if man-made caused (and again a healthy number of leading scientists -- a number I've already provided -- don't believe the data supports that claim), the US attempting to use tax penalties as a solution doesn't address others that have already thumbed their nose at doing the same / are putting their national economies ahead of global warming theories and much appreciates how it is extremely common to see polar positions made on scientific data in journals today. Again, I'm almost certain you appreciate this as true.

And still no liberal willing to speak to the points of 1) how off the mark the hypotheses made by Gore and alarmist proved, 2) the scandals regarding hiding / changing data. Guessing as a scientist yourself, Salty Gator, you're aware how insanely complex design of experiments become with as few as seven or eight variables, much less a near limitless number more as is so with climate. Sure peer review and journals blessed the use of thalidomide, kudzu, and asian carp too. Salty Gator, you might also wish to read-up on recent scandals centered around journals REFUSING to publish scientific authored papers that point to data not supporting man-made global warming. Can't use journals as a credible source of independent review if conflicting data reviews aren't allowed. Surely you understand this point, and this is coming from someone who has spent considerable time reviewing medical journals.

Hubris is something sadly lacking on the alarmist side. Again, I'm not saying that the man-made climate change isn't possible, but to say it is "settled science" is to not understand the scientific process nor to appreciate the history of science often having claimed hypotheses to be safely assumed as true only to have them subsequently be proven as false.

Changing the subject to evolution seems disingenuous / an attempt to avoid the subject at hand. Again, love someone to speak specifically to why one shouldn't be skeptical of those making claims clearly shown as QUITE false today.

[Salty Gator]

Just curious BBG what makes you so qualified to understand the scientific process better than the rest of us?

And by the way I have never voted for a Democrat at any level. So this certainly isn't about being a "liberal"

[big bend gyrene]

Actually challenging you, Salty Gator, as believing you should be more qualified than I.

But since you asked, I've dealt with analysis of data nearly my entire professional life, both in twenty year of technical work (paper industry, metals, plastics, and computer hardware manufacturing) and in medicine. In the technical fields I oversaw numerous complex DOEs, and saw how extremely difficult/dangerous/tenuous conclusions drawn from them can be. On the medical side, at the request of my physician wife I often helped her with journal searches during her dermatology education. Let me be clear I never tried to influence her conclusions from said journals, instead she used me as an extra tool to maximize her time, telling me to pull journals on numerous subjects for her review. In doing these searches, I did gain a huge appreciation for how much variance in conclusions come from review of different data studies.

Again, encouraging you to reflect on whether I'm right or wrong, Salty Gator, do you not believe that this very second I could go to pediatric journals and pull hundreds if not thousands of journals that would reach a variety of conclusions on, say, autism links with various vaccinations, or with diet, or with any number of other suggested causes. Or lets take your own profession into consideration, and I'm totally guessing at this, do you not believe if I do a journal search on the topic of the benefits / risks of either vegetable based diets versus meat diets for canines, I won't find conflicting conclusions from various studies.

Hope you find my answer satisfactory, but if not let me know and I'll gladly PM you details on the data reviews performed in my professional career.

[Salty Gator]

I never said I was more qualified than you, but you act as if you are more qualified than the rest of us. Your tone is condescending and you suggest a liberal agenda is at play. I was genuinely curious what makes you qualified to make such statements, I figured you to had more of a science background than helping your dermatologist wife wih her papers. And scientists don't do google searches to support their data. I'm talking about peer reviewed journals. Maybe I missed them but I didn't see any. And yes if you Google some subject in my profession, you may find conflicting opinions, but it becomes accepted when peers cannot disprove it, and it will be considered proven until another person can disprove it. Which happens. That is how it works. And I love how the FSU professor that studies this knows less about it than you. Now I'm done w this trash, I'm getting ready to go to the coast for the weekend and enjoy some nice warm weather.

[Dubble Trubble]

The big problem I have is with what I call "do-gooders" with NO common sense and all book learning. Many Liberals fall into this category, and so do some conservatives.

Let me just touch on a few specifics.

Wevans graph shows that cooling has been happening also. Soooooo, we now have not global warming to alarm, but "climate change". Yes, records are broken here and there. But records are broken all the time. I remember seeing the weatherman talk about record temps back when I was a kid. But just because Timbucktoo broke a summer heat record does not mean all cities did. There anomalies everywhere every year.


Ethanol is a case in point. I have harped on this one before. Ethanol is an additive to gasoline. It is neither environmentally friendly nor is is helping to lower real gasoline use. Most cars on the road get about 8-10% less mileage with a 10% ethanol blend. Now if you can not figure out you gain nothing and lose the money you paid for the gallon of ethanol in 10 gallons, then you need to get out of this discussion anyway, you are too darned stupid. Ethanol has also now been proven to have a NEGATIVE "green" footprint when you consider the fuel and power used to pick the corn and refine it to ethanol.

I have had a place at Alligator Point for years, There are three canals across the street from me. In all those years, the water level has not risen any. Now, If what Gore was saying back in the eighties was true, the water should be running over the top of them. (It actually did when Dennis came through, just so no one can say I am a liar.)

Electric Cars. Now this ids a big LOL with me.....Many folks truly believe that an electric car is zero pollution. Far from it! Those batteries do actually emit gasses, and when they go bad, will be a recycling nightmare. And where do you think the energy to charge these cars comes from? A Monkey pedaling a bicycle? There would have to be a huge increase in polluting power plants (Yes, atomic plants pollute also..), if we all went to electric autos. There is a trade off with everything, but we do not hear about that side of things.

If a little common sense would prevail, maybe we could all believe it more, but as long as the alarmist are out there making up stories that they are later caught at, many more folks will doubt their stories in the future.

As for me, I DO believe that auto emissions and other things are a factor in the health of out atmosphere, but how much is my question. Remember, just one volcano can spew out more bad gas that a years worth of cars can.

Here is a story I have heard several times about "do gooders":

Years ago, there was an effort to reduce births in African countries since maternal death rates were high. There was a monthly shot developed to stop pregnancies, and it worked UNTIL, some "do gooder" discovered that one in 70 women were dying from the shot. IT WAS STOPPED. Now the death rate went back to 1 in 9 dying from birth problems. Though not anything to do with climate, it shows how blind people can be to anything but their own personal agenda.

The real problem I have with the "do gooders" is that their head swells so much from patting themselves on the back for doing something, they are blind to if that something actually is a good thing. This is a really big problem with those in our Congress. The slogan seems to be "Do something, even if it is wrong"

We need this country to go back to having leaders with common sense, and some brains...not just diploma's.

Double

[wally]

Just to fix one point, the theory of evolution does not state "that man descended from an ape". What evolutionary scientists have deduced from the fossil record is that man and apes probably descended from a common ancestor.

[Jhults11]

I have watched this thread for a couple days now and bit my tongue long enough. As a current student in the environmental field at FSU, I have read numerous pubs over the years in many different scientific journals regarding global warming. IMO based on the conclusions I have drawn from research, you would have to be blind to disagree with the fact the the earth is heating up! It is common sense, the global population has increased exponentially in the past 200 years. With the millions of people we keep putting on the earth every year it should be clear that more and more resources are being used such as fossil fuels. This plays a major factor regarding the greenhouse gasses we put into the atmosphere. The concentration of CO2 has increased by 30% in less than 300 years. With more people on this planet than ever, nobody can argue we aren't using more fossil fuels than ever. BBG, leave all your previous thoughts at the door, step outside the box and take a look at the raw data. Look at photos of glaciers from the 1950s and look at them now? I suppose all those pics are photoshopped, right? I guess all those peer reviewed pubs regarding biological communities retreating due to increasing temperatures was a hoax, right? Hell, take a mosey down alligator point and check out those houses on the gulf side! I bet those homeowners could give us all some wisdom regarding sea level rise. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I have gathered my opinion from peer reviewed scientific journals...please inform me the next time fox news holds a convention on global warming. Take a look at this link, I know it's just an "opinion" from a professor/scientist that has over 100 pier reviews publications regarding these topics, but you might learn something ! Y'all have a great weekend and stay safe!
http://www.actionbioscience.org/environ ... anton.html

[Dubble Trubble]

I have watched this thread for a couple days now and bit my tongue long enough. As a current student in the environmental field at FSU, I have read numerous pubs over the years in many different scientific journals regarding global warming. IMO based on the conclusions I have drawn from research, you would have to be blind to disagree with the fact the the earth is heating up! It is common sense, the global population has increased exponentially in the past 200 years. With the millions of people we keep putting on the earth every year it should be clear that more and more resources are being used such as fossil fuels. This plays a major factor regarding the greenhouse gasses we put into the atmosphere. The concentration of CO2 has increased by 30% in less than 300 years. With more people on this planet than ever, nobody can argue we aren't using more fossil fuels than ever. BBG, leave all your previous thoughts at the door, step outside the box and take a look at the raw data. Look at photos of glaciers from the 1950s and look at them now? I suppose all those pics are photoshopped, right? I guess all those peer reviewed pubs regarding biological communities retreating due to increasing temperatures was a hoax, right? Hell, take a mosey down alligator point and check out those houses on the gulf side! I bet those homeowners could give us all some wisdom regarding sea level rise. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I have gathered my opinion from peer reviewed scientific journals...please inform me the next time fox news holds a convention on global warming. Take a look at this link, I know it's just an "opinion" from a professor/scientist that has over 100 pier reviews publications regarding these topics, but you might learn something ! Y'all have a great weekend and stay safe!
http://www.actionbioscience.org/environ ... anton.html

One correction sir:

Sea level rise has NOTHING to do with the houses on the point. I have been there for many more years than you, and the reason they are washing away is EROSION from storms. Islands like St James and Dog Island have ALWAYS eroded and built up. Where my cabin is located on the point, we have actually GAINED about 100 feet of beach in the last 40 years. Can I surmise from your reasoning that the sea level on my side of the point is receding?

COMMON SENSE

Sometimes, a picture helps those who cannot see....




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[big bend gyrene]

Hubris, Jhults11, hubris. First, be careful reading in more than I've stated... I've not stated a firm belief in any cause / nor stated any absolute denial. Merely pointed out that nunerous hypotheses made from some in your field fell way off the mark and that skepticism in science is a vital part of the scientific process.

Age has a natural way of teaching healthy skepticism... again, I'm old enough to remember the scientific field warning of the earth perishing from global COOLING, this on the heels of the largest population spike in recorded history. I also appreciate glaciers have both formed and melted many times well before man ever walked this earth. And yes, I appreciate population is a variable, and quite possibly a critical one in potential warming, but so are many other variables, such as solar flare activity just to name a single one amongst many.

You're reading skepticism as denial, but they are not the same at all. And while you may somewhat fairly paint me as blind, as I will absolutely declare I am in no way a climatologist or have studied in the climate field, you also paint accomplished peers in the climate field as blind also. I would be interested if you have reviewed their journal articles/published works/analysis of data so that you can share with me and any others interested as to why you believe your knowledge is more accurate then their own.

All the above shared, me thinks more of us need to go fishing. And for those who believe warming is settled science, please give me a date I can count on snook to be thick out of my beloved Econfina.

[wevans]

I have watched this thread for a couple days now and bit my tongue long enough. As a current student in the environmental field at FSU, I have read numerous pubs over the years in many different scientific journals regarding global warming. IMO based on the conclusions I have drawn from research, you would have to be blind to disagree with the fact the the earth is heating up! It is common sense, the global population has increased exponentially in the past 200 years. With the millions of people we keep putting on the earth every year it should be clear that more and more resources are being used such as fossil fuels. This plays a major factor regarding the greenhouse gasses we put into the atmosphere. The concentration of CO2 has increased by 30% in less than 300 years. With more people on this planet than ever, nobody can argue we aren't using more fossil fuels than ever. BBG, leave all your previous thoughts at the door, step outside the box and take a look at the raw data. Look at photos of glaciers from the 1950s and look at them now? I suppose all those pics are photoshopped, right? I guess all those peer reviewed pubs regarding biological communities retreating due to increasing temperatures was a hoax, right? Hell, take a mosey down alligator point and check out those houses on the gulf side! I bet those homeowners could give us all some wisdom regarding sea level rise. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I have gathered my opinion from peer reviewed scientific journals...please inform me the next time fox news holds a convention on global warming. Take a look at this link, I know it's just an "opinion" from a professor/scientist that has over 100 pier reviews publications regarding these topics, but you might learn something ! Y'all have a great weekend and stay safe!
http://www.actionbioscience.org/environ ... anton.html

[Salty Gator]

There was a snook caught near the aucilla this year

[Dubble Trubble]

I might also add that we are now reading about droughts being caused by greenhouse gasses. Does anyone read history? Remnember the Dust Bowl of the thirties? Now there were not too many cars around then........

I also have seen in person the melting Glaciers. I was at Glacier Nat Park in 2010, and the melt was real. Not denying that. Just not convinced of the cause though, since the guides said they had been melting for thousands of years since the last ice age.

COMMON SENSE

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