Seagrass Loss at Econfina

[onefishtwofish]

Apalachicola-Chattahoochee-Flint River Basin, the nation's 5th largest.

Thanks for the debate though. I never knew this fact. That Water Wars site is interesting. I may see if there is a book on it I can read. Of course, everyone knows that Florida is not at fault at all in this.

[RHTFISH]

To help us in Georgia with the money expended on litigation to try and protect OUR WATER…..I think we should at least triple the fees on Florida deer hunters that flock up here each year to shoot OUR DEER!

[Salty Gator]

To help us in Georgia with the money expended on litigation to try and protect OUR WATER…..I think we should at least triple the fees on Florida deer hunters that flock up here each year to shoot OUR DEER!

I won't come shoot any of your deer of you won't come catch any of our fish

[MuleTrainGA]

I know I'm getting to this post a little late, but in my opinion the loss of seagrass at Econfina is as many of you pointed out freshwater flows. The high flows in the spring not only brought in tannins, but also all amounts of organic matter and sediments from the mainland. This was at the time in which grass is first supposed to begin to grow and since the dark water stayed around so long the grass was never able to rebound at all. The same flows caused the fish kill at Econfina last year when all the grass that had grown died and began to decompose resulting in a low dissolved oxygen count in the water.

As for the ACF/water wars/GAFL/FLGA argument, I had an interesting conversation with a hydrology professor at UGA about the basin and whats going on. He said many point to Atlanta as taking the water from the Chattahoochee, however this isn't the case. Atlanta puts the same amount of water back in as it takes (however the quality may be lacking a little). In fact, more water would taken from the Chattahoochee if all of Atlanta was forestland. A big player is the farming done on the floodplain of the Flint River in drought years when circle irrigation is needed. But, one of the more intriguing points he made dealt with the dam that was put in on Seminole. Taking his course at UGA we learned that rivers are not only transporters of water but also transporters of sediment. When the dam was put in, water flow was kept the same however there is no way to push sediment through a dam, it simply stops it. Well since there is no sediment pushing into the river after Seminole what happens is the river begins to deepen as it washes out all sediment left in its channel. This results in deeper trough and requires differentiation of water flow to fulfill its flow requirements. So, in short he suggested that water flow from the dam may need to be altered in order to get everything back in balance.

Not saying I'm right or wrong, just telling you a possible theory and an interesting one that isn't thought of often.

[MudDucker]

Now Mule, you are going to start a riot when these boys realize that in fact Atlanta is pizzing on them too.

I heard Atlanta use was slightly negative, but the farmers in Georgia and Bama use a lot of water if they are adjacent to the rivers. Most have wells, which also affects the water table and the river level.

What folks don't seem to realize is that the Corp of Engineers is purely federal. Yes, they have listened to Georgia requests to retain the water that is in Georgia, but ultimately they now control the flow. Georgia could and has plans to go upstream and build its own dams, but they have not so far.

Judges always order mediation to try to settle cases. Judge Paul Magnuson went on an ego trip with his rulings and statements. The 11th circuit appeals court knocked him back very hard.

I would love to see a negotiated settlement that is good for everyone.

This is the beginning of a prediction that an old US Geologist shared with my class in college over 30 years ago. Water will become the new gold.

[MudDucker]

To help us in Georgia with the money expended on litigation to try and protect OUR WATER…..I think we should at least triple the fees on Florida deer hunters that flock up here each year to shoot OUR DEER!

Ah heck ... here it goes. You done lite the fire cracker!

[guthooked]

Damn mud, you like stir the pot don't ya.

Everyone else, I am from GA and here it is. "The opinions of Mudducker in no way represent the policies of other GA forum members". In other words, sink his boat, not mine.

My bad Mud, this should have been for RHTFISH.

[zload]

Wait... you mean the Federales that are in charge of fishing rules, boat fuel vapor emissions, lead bullet pollution, immigration, taxation, air travel security etc. are in charge of water flow issues too...

I think I can see a pattern starting to emerge...

[MudDucker]

Damn mud, you like stir the pot don't ya.

Everyone else, I am from GA and here it is. "The opinions of Mudducker in no way represent the policies of other GA forum members". In other words, sink his boat, not mine.

My bad Mud, this should have been for RHTFISH.

An unstirred pot will scald and stick. I say let it out and let it spin.

My boat is registered in Florida, so I run in ninja stealth mode.

Don't be messing with RHTFISH, we ol' farts will stick together to beat back any attacks!

[THOMAS CITY CURVE]

Description of said Georgia Navy vessels in question, Anybody ?

[big bend gyrene]

Ok, fellas... my original post posed these sincere questions:

1) Have such seagrass losses occurred in the past?
2) If so, how long does it take for grass to rebound under ideal weather / environmental conditions?
3) Also sure curious if I'm the only one who's noticed the loss or if anyone else can confirm loss of grass in areas known to previously have been thick in it?
4) Anybody observed the same loss in the flats outside Fenholloway, Aucilla, St. Marks?

So the above shared, I actually welcome (and am guessing CEO Bevis does too) a discussion of GA / FL water flow control AS RELATES TO SEAGRASS LOSS. If someone has clearly spoken to the correlation, I missed it. Not questioning there are plenty of valid reasons to debate water control in a different message, BUT, sounds to me like folks have spent about half the time on this topic arguing about it without linking it with a detailed explanation to seagrass loss.

Here's what I took to be the relative consensus before the GA/FL war broke out... extremely heavy spring rains hit at the worse time possible for several years in a row, flooding the flats with tannic stained waters so dark they stopped photosynthesis / grass from being able to survive and grow. That I can understand. As for the "water wars" introduction / continuation, if folks want to keep discussing it I would only ask you help everyone understand what it has to do with the seagrass loss out of Econfina / how different control would have prevented seagrass loss.

Not saying there's not a very valid answer(s), as it makes sense changing flows over time very well might change habitat, but again, I've missed it if the detailed explanation / prescription has been given thus far.

[onefishtwofish]

I was the guilty party for asking if there was a correlation to waterflow in the Appalachicola basin vs the Econfina basin. I guess I chose the wrong one, as it sparked a side topic.

With all that being said, high water/low water flows are natural cycles and I would be willing to bet that it would not permanently damage the grass bed. If it continued unabated for years, I would think it could. Aucilla is pretty thin on grass right now, at least in places I fish and could see bottom. It is the most like Econfina I can think of (relatively small in flow river, beds close to the river mouth, about the same distance from the mainland to the mouth). I think that the places where the damage is permanent is places like I mentioned (the IRL) where the hydrology is changed and will be forever. I don't see Econ or Aucilla as having watersheds from human affected stormwater runoff (ie from subdivision's lawns, agriculture fields, etc), so my guess is that they will be back. Provided we don't get the next 2-3 years of heavily wet springs.

I just found this on a quick google search and they even talk about IRL.

http://www.sms.si.edu/IRLspec/Seagrass_Habitat.htm

[big bend gyrene]

Onefishtwofish, no need to claim being guilty of anything. You asked an interesting question, and one again I will be happy if anyone speaks to with supporting detail. Just that the vast majority of replies that followed your question didn't actually speak knowingly to whether or not it played any contributing factor at all. Again, my biggest concern was seeing if others were seeing the same level of loss I noticed, and if so if they could speak historically to how often it happens / how long recovery takes if we don't get hit with heavy spring storms the next few seasons. For whatever it's worth, have had a few old-timers tell me in person they've seen such loss a few times in the pass and recovery took a number of years.

[MudDucker]

Sounds like you needed to post your question on the blog for the FSU sealab if you are looking for authoritative answers. The closest you will get here i authoritative opinions.

Each river eco system is different. As I posted, the Suwanee basin was hit years ago do to extreme floods and it has recovered. I suspect as long as the bottom conditions are conductive to growth, the grass will rebound.

[RHTFISH]

Description of said Georgia Navy vessels in question, Anybody ?

Most days loudest mud boat on Anky side of Taylor County!

Do I need to start blowing the horn each time I traverse the Thomas City Curve?

PS- Being the weekend we are flushing like crazy!