Redfish bag limit change May 1st

[Salty Gator]

...The bay boat market is one of the hottest segments in the boat-building industry...

If FWC and the State of Florida were genuinely and truly intent on preserving and protecting its fisheries' populations, maybe it's time for FWC to stop selling a fishing license to anyone/everyone who can pay for it.

Rather than reduce limits, maybe it's time for a different approach.

Maybe FWC should have a lottery system for awarding Florida residents a fishing license.

Maybe FWC should (dramatically) increase the cost of non-resident fishing licenses (so that Florida residents won't have as much competition and pressure from non-residents for productive, successful fishing in Florida waters).

As the saying goes, "there's more than 1 way to clean a fish".

Oh no, mr cut and paste found this forum. Now I have to scroll through all of this cut and paste bs on this forum also. You've already ruined fs big bend and northeast for me. Please loose this link

[Salty Gator]

2Salty,
Welcome to the Big Bend forum. It's interesting that you chose to join and weigh in on this issue. Do you work for the FWC or another fisheries agency by chance?

The graph I referred to was posted on myFWC.com but apparently has since been pulled and replaced by the news item of the executive action to lower the limit. I did not make up what I read.

If you had a history on this site, you would have seen many of us reporting declining catches of redfish and trout in the Big Bend area, which stretches east from Apalachicola to Steinhatchee. It's not just guides from Panama City and Apalach who are complaining about declining redfish numbers. I am on the water more than 150 days per year and I fish from St. Joe Bay to Steinhatchee and I have definitely noticed smaller schools, less fish and reduced catch rates. I am not alone. I have expressed my concern to the head of the Marine Fisheries Division and will continue to be involved in this process until the Commission discusses it again in June. I thought it was unwise for the commission to raise the bag limit to begin with (for reasons explained in an earlier post, if you bothered to read that) and testified several times to that effect before the rule was changed.

Am I a marine biologist? No. But from many years on the water as a professional guide and an avid redfish angler, I am concerned about the quality of the fishery. I would much rather sacrifice one fish and have a healthy population to enjoy when I go out than have the stocks collapse in the next couple years because of too much pressure and too much take. And it appears there are many others on here and elsewhere in the Northwest Management Region who feel the same way I do.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours at fisheries meetings over the last 25+ years trying help conserve the marine resources I love. I plan to be at the June FWC meeting. Maybe I'll see you there.

This guy is the biggest troll on the internet, way too vocal on the other forums. Cuts and paste pages and pages of whatever point he wants to make. Looks like wecan look forward to lots of cut and paste with somethings nifty bold highlights ( already has 5 posts w 5 huge cut and paste sections, good start).

[leonreno]

...The bay boat market is one of the hottest segments in the boat-building industry...

If FWC and the State of Florida were genuinely and truly intent on preserving and protecting its fisheries' populations, maybe it's time for FWC to stop selling a fishing license to anyone/everyone who can pay for it.

Rather than reduce limits, maybe it's time for a different approach.

Maybe FWC should have a lottery system for awarding Florida residents a fishing license.

Maybe FWC should (dramatically) increase the cost of non-resident fishing licenses (so that Florida residents won't have as much competition and pressure from non-residents for productive, successful fishing in Florida waters).

As the saying goes, "there's more than 1 way to clean a fish".

Possibly some of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard for general fishing licenses and fisheries management.

One, why should one person get a chance to fish and not the other when a properly managed fishery works fine. And if the fishery can't support catch and fry it can be put in release only like Tarpon and Bonefish.

Second, as a Georgia resident, if fishing fees are dramatically increased, the $1000's I spend yearly visiting Florida will be spent elsewhere. The Florida economy relies heavily on tourist money, but you would like to kill one of Florida's biggest tourist draws.

[glassy64]

Does anyone know what data FWCC uses for their stock assessment predictions? As far as I know of, their is no juvenile independent monitoring going on from St. Andrews Bay to Pensacola Bay. Now is the "Northwest" zone different from the "Panhandle" as far as regulations in catch?

[2Salty]

Does anyone know what data FWCC uses for their stock assessment predictions? As far as I know of, their is no juvenile independent monitoring going on from St. Andrews Bay to Pensacola Bay. Now is the "Northwest" zone different from the "Panhandle" as far as regulations in catch?

Here's a link to where "The 2015 stock assessment of Red Drum, Sciaenops ocellatus, in Florida" can be found:
http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/sto ... ts/finfish

As for regulations on red drum, effective May 1st, the daily bag limit has been reduced from 2 to 1 for the entire NW Zone.

[2Salty]

...Second, as a Georgia resident, if fishing fees are dramatically increased, the $1000's I spend yearly visiting Florida will be spent elsewhere. The Florida economy relies heavily on tourist money, but you would like to kill one of Florida's biggest tourist draws.

And Florida's oyster industry in Apalachicola Bay relies heavily on a freshwater flow into the Gulf from the Apalachicola River. The oyster industry in Apalachicola Bay has been devastated by the river's flow being choked off, much because of the artificial reservoir of Lake Lanier in the Atlanta area. You know, the Lake Lanier (Atlanta, GA area) now surrounded by high-dollar homes and real estate, and that provides drinking water to the population of Atlanta, GA.

Given the ecological crisis in Apalachicola Bay caused by restricted water flow up river, a reduced red fish population in the Panhandle area should come as no surprise.

I'll bet my dollars vs. your doughnuts the oystermen of Apalachicola Bay would gladly reimburse you for your non-resident Florida fishing license fees AND "$1,000''s" you spend annually visiting Florida for an improved, less restricted water flow of the river.

Spend your money elsewhere? Feel free to haul your money, your boat - and whatever else - to Alabama, Mississippi or Louisiana. Or maybe even Savannah, GA. As the saying goes, "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on your way out".

[glassy64]

found the 95 page red drum stock assessment report on FWCC site http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/sto ... drum-2015/

Just thinking out loud and if anyone has input and knowledge feel free.

Now what I'm trying to figure out for this stock assessment for the NW is how and where are they are gathering the data. There is no field lab in the panhandle anymore for FMRI's juvenile independent fisheries monitoring and the closest one is in Eastpoint. I believe they sample maybe from St. Andrews to Apalachicola including Port St. Joe. This lab used to be in Fort Walton Beach and was moved to Eastpoint in 1997. As far as I know there is no data being collected on juvenile sportfish (seatrout, flounder, redfish,croaker, etc...) within the panhandle estuaries from the FMRI program. Just wondering what their data is based on for the limit change.

I like two fish each.

[2Salty]

found the 95 page red drum stock assessment report on FWCC site http://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/sto ... drum-2015/

Just thinking out loud and if anyone has input and knowledge feel free.

Now what I'm trying to figure out for this stock assessment for the NW is how and where are they are gathering the data. There is no field lab in the panhandle anymore for FMRI's juvenile independent fisheries monitoring and the closest one is in Eastpoint. I believe they sample maybe from St. Andrews to Apalachicola including Port St. Joe. This lab used to be in Fort Walton Beach and was moved to Eastpoint in 1997. As far as I know there is no data being collected on juvenile sportfish (seatrout, flounder, redfish,croaker, etc...) within the panhandle estuaries from the FMRI program. Just wondering what their data is based on for the limit change.

I like two fish each.

Speaking by telephone late last week with a FWC staff member of Marine Fisheries Management, there isn't ANY scientific data that FWC used on which to base its decision to lower the limit throughout the entire NW Zone (which coastline stretches about 400 miles from Perdido (Escambia County) to Hudson (Pasco County).

FWC's decision to lower the limit was based solely on anecdotal reports, primarily from the area of Panama City to Apalachicola (about 70 miles of coastline) saying that there has been a decline of the red drum population.

Go figure.

[glassy64]

Exactly what I thought. I don't get it.

[Capt Ron]

...The bay boat market is one of the hottest segments in the boat-building industry...

If FWC and the State of Florida were genuinely and truly intent on preserving and protecting its fisheries' populations, maybe it's time for FWC to stop selling a fishing license to anyone/everyone who can pay for it.

Rather than reduce limits, maybe it's time for a different approach.

Maybe FWC should have a lottery system for awarding Florida residents a fishing license.

Maybe FWC should (dramatically) increase the cost of non-resident fishing licenses (so that Florida residents won't have as much competition and pressure from non-residents for productive, successful fishing in Florida waters).

As the saying goes, "there's more than 1 way to clean a fish".

Possibly some of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard for general fishing licenses and fisheries management.

One, why should one person get a chance to fish and not the other when a properly managed fishery works fine. And if the fishery can't support catch and fry it can be put in release only like Tarpon and Bonefish.

Second, as a Georgia resident, if fishing fees are dramatically increased, the $1000's I spend yearly visiting Florida will be spent elsewhere. The Florida economy relies heavily on tourist money, but you would like to kill one of Florida's biggest tourist draws.

Georgia does have it's own coastline and I'm sure they would appreciate all your money

[MudDucker]

I estimate this trout at 28-29".
My kayak is 28.5" wide. Caught 2 weeks ago. I only caught 2 trout that day and close to 15 reds. Very few of the reds were over 20".

If folks are catching lots of upper slot reds it ain't me.

Like all big trout I catch. This one is still out there waiting for someone else to catch.

I see the problem and it is as plain as the nose on your face ... we have too many members of the plastic boat armada decimating the fish population. We need to limit plastic boats to one per 10 sq miles of the coastline per week!

[MudDucker]

.
Georgia does have it's own coastline and I'm sure they would appreciate all your money

Always someone wanting to start up a border war. How about this, I say if you don't own property in Florida (main tax generator from residents) and your property does not touch on salt water, you can't get a license to fish on said salt water. That gets rid of the bums from everywhere including Florida and it will make those of us who have such property's values go up, thereby increasing taxes and investment. Anyone without qualifying property would have to get a VISA, which would require a lawyer and big fees and then could only catch catfish and puffers! Should we go on to flesh out this revolutionary idea?

[Chalk]

Georgia does have it's own coastline and I'm sure they would appreciate all your money

Didn't see a need for a change when it changed and I do live in Panama City and there is a decline over here - limit based or maybe oil spill based - dunno. But I did grow up during the netting hay day and fished out of Econfina and Aucilla - remembering how it was before and after the net ban - change is sometimes good.

They did stretch out the snapper days, but nobody seems to have said much about that good new either

[2Salty]

...I do live in Panama City and there is a decline over here - limit based or maybe oil spill based - dunno....

"Many anglers and guides in the Panhandle, particularly those from Panama City in Bay County through Apalachicola in Franklin County , report seeing declines both in red drum populations and size of fish over the past 2-3 years."

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Water Quality Monitoring at Apalachicola National Estuarine Research Reserve

The Effects of Salinity on the Bay

Estuaries function as transition zones between the salt environment of the sea and the freshwater of the river. Salinity fluctuation in these dynamic environments has been shown to be a dominant feature of estuaries and to a great extent, has helped determine the type and distribution of organisms found in these systems. A complex suite of factors including; local rainfall, river flow, tides, winds and basin configuration, determine salinity in an estuary. The alteration of a single variable, such as river flow, can significantly affect salinity and therefore, the biota of any estuary. Alterations of any of these patterns, especially increases in salinity, could eliminate the barriers between species and cause significant changes in resident species assemblages in estuaries.

ANERR's monitoring program has compared trends in annual and seasonal salinity patterns. Looking at long-term daily average salinity graphs, it is clear that all sites show a general increase in salinity throughout the bay, especially during the drought years. This is particularly troubling for the East Bay region, since it is not only the fresher part of the bay, but the most important nursery area in the bay. This increase in salinity could have pronounced effects on habitats and species within the Apalachicola Bay and could cause shifts in species and distribution. The data being collected in this project is important and is used to assess long-term changes in the bay caused by upstream water diversions, land-use changes, global climate change and man-made alterations. The short-term effects of hurricanes, local storm events, and natural events can also be determined. This information can be utilized to separate natural from man-induced changes.

There is concern that reduced river flows may actually deliver inadequate amounts of proper dissolved nutrients to the bay, with negative impacts on phytoplankton productivity that is necessary to support food chain in the bay.

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/s...er_quality.htm

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CAUSE AND EFFECT

Given the on-going "water war" between Alabama, Georgia and Florida and the plight of Apalachicola Bay (where the oyster industry has been virtually obliterated by reduced river flows due primarily to upstream water diversions) it may well be that there is a decline in red drum populations and size of fish over the past 2-3 years from Panama City to Apalachicola.

If IN FACT such a decline of red drum is occurring from Panama City to Apalachicola Bay, and it is being caused by ecological disruption and imbalance of Apalachicola Bay, then reducing the daily bag limit of red drum as far away from Apalachicola Bay as Perdido Key (to the west) and Hudson (to the south) isn't going to help restore the ecology of Apalachicola Bay or re-build the red drum population in the Panama City to Apalachicola Bay area.

Rather than reduce the red drum daily bag limit throughout the entire NW Zone FWC should impose a red drum "catch and release only" in Bay and Franklin counties.

[Chalk]

Look at a map - there is no correlation between the Apalachicola river system and St Andrews bay system. Water wars have no bearing - half the Apalachicola oyster fleet has been in Bay county for the past two years.

Different ecosystem - less habitat, more population, increased fishing pressure from raised bag limits, offshore regulations (increased fishing inshore) - more take means less fish and the further you go west until you hit Mobile bay the more impact the bag limit has impacted due to the increased bag limits and a ecosystem that is different than the water from the Apalachicola river to Tampa bay.

Cause and effect - as I recall the snapper limits/season was changed when the redfish limit was upped - it was a "cause and effect" or "gift" to help appease public opinion. Now that the snapper season has been given some relief - nobody bitch'n about that - they right the ship on redfish and low and behold - the "man" is taking things away from me

Regulations are in place to help everyone to include the fish and animals.

If you are over 30 and grew up fishing the Aucilla River in the 70s and 80s when you could walk from boat to boat and everyone caught fish - alotta of fish. That same age group can also remember going to Aucilla and not catching a dam thing for many years in the rivers - why cause they were all caught and made a turd.

What is my point - like your bank account - you keep taking out and not doing something to put some back in and sooner or later - you are not going to have anything.

Coming from someone who has seen it good, seen it go to bad and seen it get better through controls and measures.

P.S. - Welcome to the board - 11 post and 10 are on this topic - we have a term for that