Need an offshore primer.

[dogonenuts]

Just tried my hand at a little reef fishing (see my post on the inshore board), and had a little beginner's luck. Have a few questions. 1) When setting up on a reef do you try to get as close by GPS or do you need to see racks or fish on the bottom? 2) How much anchor rope does one need out in fairly calm/light wind conditions to hold in 20-30 ft. of water?3)What is the best way to catch pinfish when you want them?4) When a grouper gets you hung in the rocks, will they generally swim free if given a little time, or is more luck needed than time? 5) When something keeps grinding off line and can't be brought up with a offshore sized reel, what do you usually say it was? 6) What other baits are good besides pinfish?(That's all I knew how to catch at St. Marks)

Thanks,

Nuts

[Tom Keels]

1) When setting up on a reef do you try to get as close by GPS or do you need to see racks or fish on the bottom?

Yes. You would normally have a marker buoy ready and when you are close to the number and actually see something on the df that looks good you throw the marker on it. Then you would motor upcurrent of the marker, anchor and drift back close to your marker. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries but you will eventually get it.

2) How much anchor rope does one need out in fairly calm/light wind conditions to hold in 20-30 ft. of water?

This is a tricky question because it depends on many factors such as the size of the boat, the conditions etc. A good rule of thumb is 3:1 meaning 3 feet of rope to every one foot of depth. However you should have enough rope to do 7:1 in an emergency like a storm.

3)What is the best way to catch pinfish when you want them?

Find a grassflat 3-5 feet deep. Anchor up, put a chum block out, fish with bream tackle tipped with small pieces of squid, bacon, chicken gizzard, etc and catch them. If you can't catch 2 per minute you are doing something wrong. Use very small hooks. Shiner hooks work great.

4) When a grouper gets you hung in the rocks, will they generally swim free if given a little time, or is more luck needed than time?

I give it about 3 minutes on a slack line with the rod in the rod holder. You can get them out about 50% of the time. When you have left it alone for that long as soon as you pick it up start reeling as fast as you can and don't stop until you absolutely can't reel anymore. Don't give him a chance to get back to the hole if he came out.

5) When something keeps grinding off line and can't be brought up with a offshore sized reel, what do you usually say it was?

If it's a slow steady pull that doesn't stop, chances are you have a nurse shark. If it is a faster pull you may have a different type of shark or a stingray. If it is super fast you may have a big king or cobia.

6) What other baits are good besides pinfish?(That's all I knew how to catch at St. Marks)

Frozen: Lys, cigar minnows, spanish sardines, chub mackerel, mullet, squid
Live: Pigfish, blue runners, cigar minnows, spanish sardines, threadfins, sand perch
Sounds like you figured out the jig thing so no need to mention it.

Try using sabiki rigs around the deeper buoys and bird rack at St. Marks. If you find a bait school offshore you can use it there too. If you ever make it that far the Marker 24 buoy is good for most of the baits above at one point or another.

Hope this helps.

[tin can]

Sounds like you had enough beginners luck to get hooked.

1. Get close with your GPS. Circle the area, watching your bottom machine. Look for the structure. When you find the structure, throw a bouy. Determine your anchor heading, and set up on the bouy. You may, or may not see fish on your bottom machine in 20 to 30 feet of water. The typical bottom machine has about a 3:1 ratio. In 30 feet of water, you would be looking at a 10 ft. circle on the bottom.

2. A good rule of thumb is at least 3 times the depth for anchor rope. It might be calm, but you have to allow for current. Also, a long chain is as important as rope length, to get the anchor to hold. I use 6' of chain.

3. There are several ways to catch pinfish. I usually use a bream buster and fishbites. Some folks use a pinfish trap.

4. If a grouper hangs you in the rocks, give the fish slack, and put the rod in a rod holder, and leave it alone for as long as you have patience. If the fish comes out of the rocks, you'll know it. I'll usually pick up another rod and continue fishing.

5. If it's a steady grindidg of line, meaning a smooth, slow steady pull, more than likely you've found a nice shark.

6. Any small fish will work for bait. Grouper are usually not very picky. They'll eat anything, live or frozen. You can catch an asortment of bait around the bouys. Or, frozen bait can be purchased. LY's, cigar minnows, squid, they all work.

[Tom Keels]

I taught him everything he knows folks.

[dogonenuts]

Thanks for the info. I thought too late about throwing a marker buoy. Will have the chum blocks and try Sabikis around bouys next time. I was probably about right on my anchor rope. Now, if I am having difficulty seeing the rocks with the depth finder, are those schools of angel fish usually right over the right spot. Also, how big are these areas? My Garmin is supposed to be accurate to 50 Ft. Are these spots the size of bream beds or does close count?

Thanks again,

Nuts

[tin can]

how big are these areas? My Garmin is supposed to be accurate to 50 Ft. Are these spots the size of bream beds or does close count?

Some are the size of bream beds. Some are acres. Try to anchor on the up current edge of the structure. The current will carry the scent of the bait over the cover.

What Garmin do you have?

[tin can]

I taught him everything he knows folks.

You claim to have taught me everything I know. Chalk claims to have taught me how to fish. And, I still don't know nothin.

[DWilliams]

If your gps lets you, try marking the spot and not throwing a marker. Drift the 1st time and get an anchor heading. ride past the hole on the anchor heading. double the distance before you yell to drop the anchor and it usually ends up about 3 to 1. If you fish a bunch of holes that'll save some time.

[Sir reel]

Good afternoon DW.

I have a question. I'm not sure I caught what your suggesting about the distance.

ride past the hole on the anchor heading. double the distance before you yell to drop the anchor and it usually ends up about 3 to 1.

What distance are you saying I would need to double? Thanks.

[Knot Tester]

Double the depth of water. So if you are in 30', go 60' from your spot and then let out the anchor. Then the drift will take you back to your spot with the line out at about a 3:1.

If its flat calm, then 31' will hold in 30' of water. But even when its flat calm, there is always a little current moving you around. The trick is if your anchor is not holding, you need to let more line out. If that takes you past your spot, then pull anchor and move further away and try again.


The biggest problem with GPS ( I don' think there is anything wrong! )is you don't know in which direction that 50' is, and as you move the accuracy changes. Just keep circling or troll until you find what you are looking for.

[mjsigns]

You claim to have taught me everything I know. Chalk claims to have taught me how to fish. And, I still don't know nothin.

Most everything I know I learned from TC.....

[Sir reel]

Could it be that the distance from the spot to drop anchor would be closer to triple the depth?

My geometry has probably failed me (been quite a while) but if we were to think in terms of calculating the hypotenuse of a triangle if we know the legs.... depth = 30' being one leg and 60' being a second with the anchor line being the hypotenuse then for these numbers the anchor rope length would be 67.08. (subject to check) If this is a realistic scenario then the distance from the MOB or buoy would need to be closer to 85-90 ft for the anchor line to be at a 3:1 ratio. (I think??) AW Heck.. That's way to complicated for fish'n!

[tin can]

SR, your math is correct.

I would agree with DWilliams about drifting. Another method would be to get on the spot, stop the boat, using the motor if necessary, and drop a bouy. Let the boat drift. You now have a visual reference back to the point. From where you drifted to the marker is going to be close to the anchor heading. Idle back to the bouy. Continue in that same direction past the bouy, watching your GPS. It should tell you "Distance to Point". Even with the accuracy error introduced by moving, if the GPS is WAAS enabled, that distance will be within 15 or 20 feet. Assuming the water depth is 30 feet, idle past the bouy until the GPS says 90 feet to point. Drop anchor. You'll be within 15 to 20 feet of your desired anchor point, and you'll be on your anchor heading.

This is all assuming it's a calm day, as dogonenuts suggested.

If I'm wrong with this suggestion, I'm sure Tom will correct me.

[DWilliams]

knot tester you need to upgrade your gps if it doesnt tell you a heading.

Could it be that the distance from the spot to drop anchor would be closer to triple the depth?

By the time you yell to the man on the anchor and he drops it, you've covered that extra 20-30'.

I used to use a buoy on every spot. I don't use one at all any more. It takes practice but you should be able to anchor on a spot within 20' without a buoy even in 2-3' seas.

[Knot Tester]

knot tester you need to upgrade your gps if it doesnt tell you a heading.

Everyone's GPS gives you a heading. The accuracy reading however does not indicate which direction you should travel to get to your spot. If the accuracy is 50' off....you could be 50' away in any direction... or for that matter you could be only 5' away. Your GPS just does not know!

Sir Reel gets the math award

Names Knot Tester not Math Tester. a2+b2=c2 yields 67 ft of rope! But in 3-4 seas a 2:1 has been holding me ok. Throw in the occasional unexpected 6 footer and then 2:1 don't hold.
I've had more problems with the anchor not digging in than not holding.

I use GPS to get me close to a spot, depth finder to find it. Once located, do a sharp circle. That puts a prop wash marker in the ocean. Use that as your poor mans buoy and travel away from that against the drift. That will get you close!

Thats not as good as throwing out a boy...but it works.