reality check

[geezer]

Questions for the SW-Shallows guys:

Reading the articles, looking at photos, checking charts that read like you could wade the entire BigBend a few hundred yards from shore, small tides... it creates a wonderful mental image of ultimate tranquility. And all this of course meshes beautifully with my old age fantasy of lazy floats (and gently rocking geezer naps) among the grasses and mangroves only a mile or two from somewhere...worried only about bugs and sunburn.

That dreamy image is also in sharp contrast to some surprise experiences in the N.Atlantic of 6-8' tides, raging currents, towering chop, nasty squalls, instant fog banks, and ill wind... while MarineRadio is still droning on about weather paradise.

What is reality in the shallow coastal Gulf...what are the 'gotchas' to prepare for? Or is it just an ocean by another name?

What is minimum prudent electronics? GPS? VHF? How does a Kovey of Kayaks communicate? In a couple feet of water could/would anyone come if you called for help?

Are FishFinders actually useful in 2 feet of water?

Do you guys use anchors? Anchor trolleys? Or do stakeout poles cut it?

Is a set of wheels handy for typical launch sites? Or can you drive to the waters edge in most places?

What about toothy-critter-handling seated inches above the waterline? Gaff? Net? Lipper?

How about hauling your catch around all day in the blazing sun rot?

How often are you wading instead of floating?

Are you out after dark?

Is weekend boat traffic an issue?

What have I forgotten to ask?

I know this is a lot (my first of a thousand questions)...but you dont see much of this stuff discussed elsewhere. I would save them all for when we met at Wakulla Beach, but leaving the house at 4:30am to get there on time might make us too CRANKY to ask then.


Thanks, Bob

[Littoral]

Hey There, I'll try to weigh in first -but you'll get polarity on some of these questions.
First, and I can't emphasize this enough, the depth of your questions tells me that you have a lot of it figured out already. I say that as a teacher whose research added up to learning that the quality of questions someone asks is often the very best assessment of what someone actually knows.
My responses here are filtered by the fact that I seek simplicity, but not at the sake of safety.
Responding per question:

What is reality in the shallow coastal Gulf...what are the 'gotchas' to prepare for? Or is it just an ocean by another name?
Not nearly like the east coast. Watch the wind & it's no problem. Don't hang a stringer of fish off the side.

What is minimum prudent electronics? GPS? VHF?
A float plan, whistle, and a mirror.
How does a Kovey of Kayaks communicate?
They don't.
In a couple feet of water could/would anyone come if you called for help?
Yes
Are FishFinders actually useful in 2 feet of water?
No
Do you guys use anchors?
Always, light as possible, with a chain
Anchor trolleys? Or do stakeout poles cut it?
Neither, but a small drift anchor is nice -don't have one though
Is a set of wheels handy for typical launch sites? Or can you drive to the waters edge in most places?
It's all accessible. Drive & drag. Depends on the weight of your yak. Mine is 43lbs on purpose.
What about toothy-critter-handling seated inches above the waterline? Gaff? Net? Lipper?
I'm slack here. I'd say a lipper but I don't have one. I handle fish by hand, and really shouldn't.
How about hauling your catch around all day in the blazing sun rot?
Don't
How often are you wading instead of floating?
A lot
Are you out after dark?
No, but I've wanted to because I hear good things about mid-summer at night. I think a kayak would be a great way to do it if you stayed close and simplied your gear for the conditions.
Is weekend boat traffic an issue?
No
As to the rest of a thousand questions, & :
saving them all for when we met at Wakulla Beach, but leaving the house at 4:30am to get there on time might make us too CRANKY to ask then.
Seeing set ups and hanging together to learn how we all actually (REALLY) fish is great for group trips. That said, most of your questions work better here because we can get to it whenever.
While I'm thinking about it, an odd but important public service announcement:
don't ever pick a Sheepshead up under its gill plates.

[mjsigns]

Couple more things to think about concerning night time SW wade fishing....

1- At night, in the shallows, the insects are terrible. You'd need some kind of hat with a mosquito netting around your head and neck. Besides getting eaten alive, I've inhaled no seeums and mosquito's, through my mouth and nose and it just feels nasty.

2- If you venture to wade fish at night, keep in mind that is when sharks tend to be most active. I'd float an ice chest in an inner-tube and keep any bait out of the water. If you wade fish near the St. Marks lighthouse at night, you also better keep an eye out for gators. I've seen them out in the salt water while in my canoe. They are also more active at night.

My .02

[Littoral]

MJ is right, I wouldn't wade at night. I would float water I knew, I wouldn't go far, and I would not do it alone.

[BlueDrifter]

1. Boat traffic
A. Rivers.
I have been nearly run down twice in the St. Marks. Boats seem to be continuously going by most slow down some don't. Personally I would rather they didn't slow down. At speed their wake is smaller. Stay near the banks and out of the channel and all will be well.

B. Lakes same problem on Lake Talquin. Lake Jackson is Kayakers paradise since the bass boats cant run there right now. Other smaller ponds/lakes should be OK.

C. The flats. No boat problems since it is so shallow.

2. Will anyone help if you are in trouble? ...Maybe but if no one knows you are in trouble ...thats why you have a whistle. If you had a large power boat and got in trouble you would have the same problem or for that matter if you stayed home gardening and had a heart attack you would have the same problem.

I use a sit on top so I would have less problem with sinking like in a sit in. A sit in fills with water and unless you have flotation would sink. ALWAYS wear a PFD

3. Sharks and gators. Don't wade at night keep fish out of the water if possible. I , years ago, had fish on a stringer during daylight hours and attracted a large shark...hope he enjoyed my trout since I tossed the stringer to him and left the are. Never had a problem with gators and have been around many on lakes...moccasins are a different story if you have fish aboard, hope they enjoyed my bream and bass.

4. wading.. Being lazy I seldom wade but watch for sting rays..shuffle your feet. Also oysters are more than sharp so where foot protection (not flip flops or sandals)

5. I have a small (about two pounds) folding anchor. The mushroom was better but took up too much room. I came up with a non trolley system for anchoring from the bow or stern.

6. Keeping fish: I use a floating basket with a orange float. I would never tie a stringer or basket to the boat. There is room for an ice chest which I do carry in the well. Being large I have never tried to open while still in the YAK but you can use that for keeping fish.

In general the less clutter you have the better. I have a fish finder that I use in the river and deeper water but I learned if you stayed in one place long enough there will be fish showing up everywhere so local knowledge is a better way to find em. GPS I think it would be neat if you wanted to find a specific spot to return to. I can do the same thing with a good compass.

7. nights require lights which require batteries. One of those LED stern/anchor lights would be best. A head worn LED lamp would be handy.

8. bugs seems there isn't a good repellent for no seeums. in general dont wear after shave or good smelling stuff. One guy I knows uses those dryer sheets rubbed all over his bare skin swears he never gets bitten by no seums. try to go when there is a light onshore wind stay over 100 yards from shore

All of the problems including sinking and falling overboard occur on power boats. BUT you didn't spend $20,000 for your yak, didn't spend $60 for fuel, didn't have to replace your prop nor did gouge a whole in your boat when launching it down a ramp.

You did get closer to nature (no pun) get some great exercise and you will become more appreciative of our waters .

[Charles]

Hi Bob,

I can throw out some information from a canoe perspective. Hopefully some of it will be useful.

What is reality in the shallow coastal Gulf...what are the 'gotchas' to prepare for? Or is it just an ocean by another name?

The biggest 'gotcha' for me is wind. Kayaks, sitting lower on the water, aren't nearly as affected.

The biggest wildlife 'gotcha' are bugs. They are worse if the repellent got left at home. They know.

The only wildlife 'gotchas' that concern me are the things I may not see, stingrays and jellyfish.

What is minimum prudent electronics? GPS? VHF?

I nearly always have a GPS and a cell phone. If I'm going anywhere on saltwater and fog is even a remote possibility I also carry a compass. I don't completely trust electronics when it comes to getting me out of a jam.

How does a Kovey of Kayaks communicate?

If you know the guy, and you're not going to mess up his fishing, just pull up and talk.
Other methods of communication are:

SPLASH-indicates man overboard

"OW, OW, @#$%^&, OW," SPLASH-somebody just ran their boat into a bush containing a wasp nest.

"AAAIIIIEEEEeeeeEEEE," SPLASH-somebody just found a snake in their boat.

In a couple feet of water could/would anyone come if you called for help?

Yes. If it's me, the time it takes to get to you will depend on if the shallow water contains tailing redfish.

Are FishFinders actually useful in 2 feet of water?

Absolutely. Shallow water fish finders are also known as polarized glasses.

Do you guys use anchors? Anchor trolleys? Or do stakeout poles cut it?

I carry a 7 lb. folding anchor or 8 lb. mushroom anchor. I have a smaller folding anchor, but have found that it drags too easy. Normally I just use my push-pole to stake out.

Is a set of wheels handy for typical launch sites? Or can you drive to the waters edge in most places?

Here's the wheels usually I use to get me to the water.

What about toothy-critter-handling seated inches above the waterline? Gaff? Net? Lipper?

For saltwater I carry a landing net. For bass fishing I don't, figuring I can either lift'em or lip'em. Although, this philosophy did get me into trouble with a large mudfish last Sunday when we went to the river.

How about hauling your catch around all day in the blazing sun rot?

Ice is overrated, they taste better if they're "aged" a little.
Actually, I always carry either a 25 or 52 qt. cooler, either with ice, or as a livewell. Unless, I'm on a walk-in. Then I just carry a mesh bag and they always die hours before I head back, especially on a hot day, but this doesn't seem to affect the flavor any.

How often are you wading instead of floating?

Depends, if I know I'm going to be wading it's usually a walk-in and the canoe stays home. Normally, if I take the canoe I don't wade since I can float shallower than I usually wade, and get myself along, with all my stuff, with a push-pole.

Are you out after dark?

Sometimes.

Is weekend boat traffic an issue?

If you like solitude, DO NOT go to the Wakulla River on a weekend afternoon when the weather's nice. Particularly Sundays and Holidays.

What have I forgotten to ask?

I'll just throw this in here, some of this stuff does double duty as safety equipment and for comfort:
Assorted Zip-Ties
Extra Rope, Assorted Lengths
Spare Batteries (for everything that takes batteries)
Extra Pack of Cigarettes
Spare Lighter (fire starter)
Roll of Toiletpaper (fire starter)
Handheld Flares (3)
Signal Mirror
Flashlight
Compass
GPS
Cell Phone
Diamond Hone
Bug Repellent
Sunscreen
Chapstick
Second method of propullsion, i.e., pushpole and paddle, or two paddles
Tertiary method of propulsion, Wading Shoes
Food, Drinks and drinking water
Lifejacket and Whistle (of course)
Boat Bailer

I know this is a lot for a kayak, but it all fits in the canoe and I can still get my bicycle and trailer in, in case I'm putting in here and taking out there.

I like to stand to fish and pole, sometimes to paddle, which is one reason why I like a longer paddle than would normally be considered right for me. It's probably a little trickier to stand and fish in a kayak, although I've seen Bakertize do it for flycasting.

Oh yeah, all the stuff I carry that needs to stay dry, like cell phone, wallet, toilet paper, etc., goes in it's own Zip-Lock bag, then packed in a Zip-Lock box, which goes in the boat bag.

[Littoral]

This is becoming a great & informative post. It makes me think that a set of similar-prior topics would be nice to keep on the top of the forum with a table of contents to direct folks. In fact, that would be a nice idea for all of the forums.
The biggest gottcha out there is oysters. They'll send you to the clinic right now. I use old sneakers. Rinse & dry. When they get ugly I toss em out. Need more? I hunt junk & thrift shops all the time anyway so I just pick up a used pair for $2.

[Charles]

Which reminds me.

Years ago a friend of mine was mullet fishing by himself. An activity he was very experienced at. He fell from his mullet skiff onto an oyster bar and cut his hands up so bad he damn near bled to death before he could get back to his house at Live Oak Island.

Not very far, and with a powerboat.

Clumps of oysters can get you above your sneakers.

Be very careful around oyster bars.

[geezer]

wow, guys...WOW! Exactly the perspective adjustment I was seeking. You guys are great. Im thinking of changing my handle from geezer to dumbyankee.

[bluedrifter] ...moccasins are a different story if you have fish aboard...
[dumbyankee] Whats rawhide indian shoes got to do with lake fishing?

[mjsigns] ...St. Marks lighthouse at night...gators...
[dumbyankee] damn college students!

[charles pulley] ...He fell from his mullet skiff onto an oyster bar...
[dumbyankee] Do they serve pina coladas?

[littoral] ...don't ever pick a Sheepshead up under its gill plates...
[dumbyankee] you southern boys sure use strange bait...what about chops & roasts?

A compendium of the wit and wisdom from yooze would sell a bunch of copies fer sure. Lets see...$19.95 ea, 10,000 copies... wow, new kayaks all around! [this might be a serious idea?] You can find quite a bit on the net about Calif, Texas, the Keys, the NorthEast...but not much yet about the BigBend. You guys may be making history.

Thank you all...Im blown away by the huge effort of your responses. I have a little better 'starter' feel for what Im getting into now...and some common sense 'settling' in my prep activities. Man o man...a whole bunch more to learn!

See you all soon...cant wait!

Bob

[Charles]

Which reminds me.

Years ago a friend of mine was mullet fishing by himself. An activity he was very experienced at. He fell from his mullet skiff onto an oyster bar and cut his hands up so bad he damn near bled to death before he could get back to his house at Live Oak Island.

Not very far, and with a powerboat.

Clumps of oysters can get you above your sneakers.

Be very careful around oyster bars.

Oh yeah, something I was thinking, but neglected to run out through the ends of my fingers: The oyster bar he fell on is in Walker Creek. From the bar to his house is only about one mile, in a boat that, as I recall, did about 30 mph, maybe a little more.

[BlueDrifter]

I have a pair of short-top almost water proof boots from the Sports Authority. Very warm in winter when I wear water proof rain suit over jeans. If oysters cut through that I deserve to be cut for trying to walk the bars anyway. Most of the bars I have been on have a good bit of easily walkable sand around them.

Geezer are your Yale sit on tops or sit ins? Sit ins have more room for junk but would definately suggest bladders in bow and stern (even if its just a beach ball.

I used to have a two place Folbot then I tried to reenter. Couldn't do it because it wanted to sink. Later I got bladders and it was OK just get it right side up get in and start bailing/pumping . My drifter is a sit on top and once I got used to not having all that fiberglass around me for"protection" I like it better. My sit in always had water in it to so the wet but I experience with the sop is OK.

[Charles]

Oh, don't get me wrong. Oyster bars are very productive places to fish and I stomp all over'em, wading in sneakers or felt soled neoprene booties. They just require a certain amount of extra caution, or the trip will be over real quick.

Just got back from the St. Marks river. I think the pushpole may go the way of the trolling motor for river fishing. In a canoe, paddling is more efficient, quieter and faster than poling, and the paddle can be stowed out of the way. Caught a bunch of bass. I'll put a more detailed report over in "Freshwater".

[geezer]

Our yaks are Cobra FishNDives sitontops. Beachball bladders sound cool even for them. Some site I read said to jam a few pool noodles inside but I dont have a lot of confidence in that as safety floatation. I have rigged the boats pretty simple so far...hiback seats...a milk crate and tiedowns for everything ...and wrapped everything that doesnt float on its own in a slice of noodle...a few pvc rodholders on the basket and one luxury Scotty holder bolted to the top of the large rectangular hatchs. We found 3 lb folding anchor packages at the local tackle shop. We got decent pfds and whistles and compasses for around our necks. I made some 5' stakeout poles with t-tops that fit through the scuppers...and a pvc 'rack' for the back of my small pickup to more neatly haul the boats. I have those big rubber paddleholders but have not installed them because we have not figured out our paddling sweeps as yet. 20' Bow and stern ropes. In the garage they look like bumble bees but we have no actual clue as yet about the functionality of whats been done or what more to do. So far its a 'concept' not a reality.

Our WallyWorld $6.00 beach slippers apparently are not going to cut it for wading. And we havent even thought about the rest of our garb yet. At the same time we have started from scratch with sw fishing gear with only my ancient yankee background to guide me (a whole nudder topic or two...).

According to you guys it seems like we are pretty well ready to 'start' (except for the cast iron booties) but I am looking forward to seeing what everyone else has done and getting some brutal critiques. I am well aware that 'pretty/fancy' gets thrown overboard after about 15 mins of sw use...my Whaler and my approach to fishing soon got very simplified and ruggedized...and I am assuming the same will happen with the yaks...

...but then right now I know fer chure that I dont know squat!

Thanks, Bob

[tin can]

At the same time we have started from scratch with sw fishing gear

Bob, DO NOT accept any advice from Chalk about saltwater tackle. A kayak will not float that much weight.

[Charles]

I would think it wouldn't take much to float a swamped 'yak. The only problem I would have with something inflatable is getting an unnoticed hole in it.

How 'bout a couple or three crab trap bouys glued in the bow and stern with silicone sealer? Would that do it? The bouys are free, just pick'em up out of the marsh. Sometimes they come with good rope on them too, that can be used for other things.