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So Pudshucker I suppose that means your gonna make sure they are legal before we have lunch at the Mexican restaurant we eat together at on most Mondays?

Damn those bad people for creating all of that artificial demand.

I am surprised we fell for it. We aught to do those nasty hard jobs ourselves.

That will teach them a lesson there is no point in coming to our country.

I guess we didn't fool them when we sent the jobs there but payed them lousy wages to do the job there.

If we didn't fool them maybe they aren't so dumb after all.

I don't really want to debate politics on the fishing forums, but I"m so sick of the "illegal immigrants do jobs Americans don't want to do" argument for opening the floodgates.

It's sensationalist and short-sighted; i.e. it is based on the false assumption that because Americans aren't doing those jobs, the reason for it is that they do not want to. I would argue that the actual explanation is that they do not want to for two dollars an hour, no benefits and all the employee protection they are legally entitled to as citizens of the United States of America.

Please table this argument now and forever unless or until those who illegally employ these people offer these same jobs to Americans, with all the rights liberties and pay required by law. If Americans still don't take them, then let's let some people immigrate...legally...and warn them ahead of time they ain't gettin welfare...if that doesn't work, guess what has to happen...employers will have to raise pay ofr those jobs.

That's how capitalism works...supply and demand...the real kind. Yes corn on the cob will go up from 20 cents to 25-30 cents if we have to do that, or maybe some poeple will get out of the corn business altogether due to the drop in profit margin...omg..and if that happened, we might stop paying poeple to not grow corn...and if we weren't doing that, we might be able to give more assistance to legal citizens who deserve it...sounds horrible doesn't it?

Now Mook, don't be too hard on him. He does have one line of his text correct.....

His signature line......

Dubble

So Pudshucker I suppose that means your gonna make sure they are legal before we have lunch at the Mexican restaurant we eat together at on most Mondays?

Excuse me, those are not my employees, but if you want, after you put your order in, I will call INS.

Damn those bad people for creating all of that artificial demand.

Lame, weak...should I go on. The jobs were being done before they got here. They just do them cheaper for the reason I put in my last post trying to help educate you. They are bad only because they broke the law when they came here. If one of them decided to climb into your house one night because they just wanted a cleaning job, you gonna lay there with you cpap or you gonna do the Marine thing on them?

I am surprised we fell for it. We aught to do those nasty hard jobs ourselves.

There are no jobs that were not being done before they came. They are now taking higher paid skilled jobs in construction..but I guess you think that is right too. When they start trying to sell insurance, you gonna jump up and down.

That will teach them a lesson there is no point in coming to our country.

I guess we didn't fool them when we sent the jobs there but payed them lousy wages to do the job there.

If we didn't fool them maybe they aren't so dumb after all.

Earth to Howard...earth to Howard. Those that got those jobs stayed, those that didn't want to come here. Like I said, it is really easy for you because they are not after your job. If you were in construction, you would be chirping another tune.

Part of the problem is our citizens that are their employers are not abiding by the law. They use the illegal alien in order to try to increase their profit margin. Many would be out of business if they had to pay the additional wage / taxes / benefits etc...

If the employer was required to follow the law in regards to employees taxes liability ins etc... A great deal of this debate would be over. We in an effort to make a higher profit margin break the law.

We also are to blame we enjoy the benefit over the lower cost.

Punish consumers that receive the benefit for taking advantage the lower cost.

Punish the employer that provides the cheaper labor and breaks the law.

The people that are educated that help to further this problem.

No doubt you won't agree with this either and suggest that because you see it from a different perspective that I am stupid or wrong I am not certain I am correct but I am fairly certain you are missing a large part of the equation yourself.

I'm not overly excitied nor overly interested in a great debate on immigration. But there are 3 things that I know for sure:

1) The current debate is controlled by thieves and liars. Some call themselves Rublicans, others say they are Democrats, some pretend to be Independant. Some 'work' at a fed level, some at a state level, some at a local level. But we should never pretend that they have the interest of the citizens at heart. They serve themselves and their pocketbooks.

2) My grandparents and my wifes great-grandparents came here LEGALLY. They understood that North America (they came to US and Canada) was THE land of opportunity and that HARD WORK paid huge dividends.

3) It was FAR FAR EASIER to come legally at the time they came. Soccermoms 2 great granddads and my paternal granddad simply said "I am here to be an acricultural worker." That was all it took. From there they earned, they saved, they sweated, they toiled, they saved some more, and eventually they all owned their own farms. BUT - theu never committed crimes, they never 'cheated the system,' they nevar sought loopholes in the crap that that corrupt politicians were engineering. They simply worked their asses off.

That's all I know.

WAS'NT THIS THREAD ABOUT SPEAKING ENGLISH? Once again WAM you have completely lost focus on the problem we were discussing. There is a total communication breakdown in the construction industry. Constantly, I have to completely stop what the non-speaking workers are doing and go find an interpreter to correct what the are doing wrong. This also comes into play with other trades when they don't understand, "You can't do that or it will screw things up for the rest of us". Projects are becoming increasingly harder to complete on time and within budget because of this. I personally don't have a problem with any LEGAL immigrant that can speak some English. It is a problem with business owners who hire the illiterate, greed and profit margins are the driving force and now it has started is impossible to correct. No small business owner can compete otherwise, and will soon find themselves out of work. That's all I got to say about that.

What a mess wrote:Part of the problem is our citizens that are their employers are not abiding by the law. They use the illegal alien in order to try to increase their profit margin. Many would be out of business if they had to pay the additional wage / taxes / benefits etc...

If the employer was required to follow the law in regards to employees taxes liability ins etc... A great deal of this debate would be over. We in an effort to make a higher profit margin break the law.

We also are to blame we enjoy the benefit over the lower cost.

Punish consumers that receive the benefit for taking advantage the lower cost.

Punish the employer that provides the cheaper labor and breaks the law.

The people that are educated that help to further this problem.

No doubt you won't agree with this either and suggest that because you see it from a different perspective that I am stupid or wrong I am not certain I am correct but I am fairly certain you are missing a large part of the equation yourself.

I am all for punishment of the people who employ them if they knowingly hire illegals. However, again you are naive. I represent folks who try to only hire legals, but the federal government gives them no help in making this determination and in fact threatens them if they ask for anything other than a social security number and/or green card.

I'm sure there are those who hire them because they are cheaper and yes, they should be punished and if they can't make it without the illegally cheap labor, they should fail.

However, they are only a part of the problem. This takes a complete solution of providing employers with good information, punishing employers who ignore the law, a quick deportation system and a secure border.

I don't call you stupid when I disagree with any well articulated ideas you express, but when you bring emotional and irrelevant clap trap into the argument and try to paint someone as a bigot because they don't agree with you, then you paint your own self. I seriously doubt I am missing much of the picture at all and your assertion that I am only shows that you have no confidence in what you spout and your ability to educate me.

I am not trying to educate anyone.

I am not calling anyone stupid.

I am not for opening the floodgates for immigration.

Neither legal or illegal.

I am not calling anyone a racist.

I am not saying I am not naive.

I don't claim to have the truth.

I am against prejudice, racism, bigotry.

I know that as long as good people call the truth a lie.

Say they love God but hate their neighbor.

Say that because they believe it so, it is true.

It will be a long hard road to become that which we are called to be.

Again you use words of hate. This isn't about hate or prejudice. You have a bad habit of trying to sound superior and judgmental in your assessments of others hearts and religious stances. You have no such position at the podium.

416 views 26 responses 6 from pudshucker.

All increasingly hostile who is on which soap box?

From what I heard the hit dog does the barkin.

See you at lunch. D.H.

Wasn't it you in another thread that was talkin about how your nice and I ain't?

What spirit is that a fruit of?

What a mess wrote:416 views 26 responses 6 from pudshucker.

All increasingly hostile who is on which soap box?

From what I heard the hit dog does the barkin.

See you at lunch. D.H.

Wasn't it you in another thread that was talkin about how your nice and I ain't?

What spirit is that a fruit of?

There you go...making another assumption. No hostility from me. The only personal hostility here is from your continued judgmental comments. I only point out how wrong it is of you to try to judge me or anyone else. That position don't belong to you, no matter how comfortable you seem to be when you take it. I ain't telling you what to do, but you might want to check your fruit.

From what I heard the hit dog does the barkin.

See you at lunch. D.H.

Two Arab spies eating in a New York restaurant. First spy speaks to the second in Arabic. Second spy say "You fool, you will give us away. We are in America now. Speak Spanish."