BOHICA

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big bend gyrene
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BOHICA

Post by big bend gyrene »

Wish the federal folks at NOAA had the guts just to use the word "closed" versus "set the gag bag limit at zero"... :smt010

http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/bulletins/pdf ... e_Gulf.pdf

From all that I've read they're leaning to 180 day closure for us recreational folks while the commercial guys will get 100,000 pound allowance for barotraumatized gags caught while seeking other species. :roll: While they're stating that they wish to have a season following any closure, no guarantees as they're also saying re-evaluations of stocks will have to be done before reopening.

Also, appreciate that this hasn't even been passed yet, but sounds like the federal folks are pretty determined. :(
"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank GOD for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
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red_yakker
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Re: BOHICA

Post by red_yakker »

:thumbup:
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
Jumptrout51
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Re: BOHICA

Post by Jumptrout51 »

:smt010
I guess our state has not suffered enough from Obamanomics,unemployment and the oil spill.
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Re: BOHICA

Post by Jumptrout51 »

red_yakker wrote::thumbup:
You actually support this proposal?

Exactly WHY are you the RED yakker?
Are you of the communist persuasion?
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Re: BOHICA

Post by FUTCHCAIRO »

JUST GO ON OUT THERE AND CATCH ALL THAT YOU CAN AND KEEP ALL IN THE INTEREST OF NOT OVER FEEDING DOLPHINS. GO AHEAD AND DO IT, KEEP THE 44 MAG. HANDY IN CASE ANYONE WANTS TO QUESTION YA .
PA THE OLD MAN OF THE SEA SEMPER FI :smt006 salute2
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fishinfool
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Re: BOHICA

Post by fishinfool »

I just do not understand why the state bows down to every federal limit and suggestion. They are biologists just like ours, only employed by the feds and not the state. It seems that our folks just fall in line with their recommendations without any question. Then we as citizens suffer by extension. I would like to see our biologists make some recommendations to the feds or just decide not to play their game. I believe the state has the right to change fishing limits from what the feds dictate. I also do not believe the "by catch" excuse when it comes to the commercial guys. I used to see boats near full of Red Drum back when gill nets were legal. The fisherman would say, "Do you want to see all that good fish go to waste?". I believe some commercial guys will use any method at their disposal to catch whatever they can sell, intentional or not.
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big bend gyrene
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Re: BOHICA

Post by big bend gyrene »

Maybe red yakker is glad to see the stock being protected... if so, can't say that I'm not with him on wanting to ensure that a healthy stock is maintained BUT that doesn't speak/nor hold accountable folks for how we got here.

As for how we got here, take a look at the offshore reports and tell me how much tonnage of gag grouper BBF members have been collecting in 2010... then weigh that against what the commercial guys have taken from the federal waters thus far this year... then look at what penalties the recreational guys have paid in recent years in ever-declining bag limits. :smt010

I'm sure not sad because of how it impacts me personally... haven't fished for them much at all in 8 years, targeting other species instead, catching one or two keepers a year while targeting cobes, but am saddened that recreational guys who do enjoy catching them will suffer, as will the guides who used to do offshore charters. That and I can see them re-opening the grounds for the commercial guys and NOT reopening them for us regular Joes... they've charted that path for years and I don't see the Obama administration championing the common man, especially not the ones along the gulf coast who cling to their guns and religion. :smt012

Only dimly lit bright spot in this story, fishinfool, is that a few articles I read said that if the fed guys do close federal grounds the state isn't eager to follow, so we may still get to catch and keep a few during the fall and spring, though guess that they're really going to get hammered hard during those spells if the state waters do stay open... which kind of goes against the development of a truly sound management plan.

Much like the thread I wrote explaining the banking failures, sadly folks don't seem to want to deal with the root cause of problems as much as just stick infected band aids on the wounds inflicted upon us. And PA, I hear you... reading some of the other forums today I saw a number of guys talking about taking grills out on their boats to make their own on-the-water grouper sandwiches. Can't say I like breaking the law, but will say much like with prohibition when the common Joe gets bent over too hard, makes it mighty tempting to get out of the BOHICA position.
"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank GOD for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
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Re: BOHICA

Post by What a mess »

If you do the offshore grill option try to make up slaw before departure bring hoagy rolls & Blackend fish seasoning a grouper poorboy is a nice lunch.
If you use match lite make sure you let it burn all the way off 1st or your stuck with an aftertaste. Don't ask me how I know this, a little birdie told me.

I know the folks in charge really want to protect the fish from us, is there someone that can protect us from them?
Yesterday it was taboo today it is normal what the heck will they be doing tomorrow?
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red_yakker
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Re: BOHICA

Post by red_yakker »

Yes, as much as I hate it for selfish reasons (I love catching grouper), I support the proposal. I do also agree that most of the blame should go to the commercial guys. But, I also keep in mind that to those commercial guys, this is their jobs and their lives, not just a hobby. They're not making a killing out there (most of em at least), they're mostly barely scraping by. Would you prefer that they put those guys out of work (and put them on food stamps) so that you can enjoy one more grouper season? Consider the economic impact. (Yes, I'm aware that closing the recreational season would also have an economic impact, but I don't believe it would be quite as drastic)

I'll say it again, I LOVE CATCHING GROUPER, but I'm willing to give it up for a year if it means better numbers of grouper a couple years from now.

Maybe :thumbup: :thumbdown: would have been a better comment. I'm not going to enjoy it, but I think it's the right decision (As long as the science supports the need.)
The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing. ~Babylonian Proverb
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Re: BOHICA

Post by bbb »

If the Commercial guys get 100,000 pounds of by-catch, what do the Recreational fisherman get? They also are going to catch Gag grouper while fishing for Snapper and Red Grouper. Some of those fish will be turned back injured, unable to live. Maybe give the Rec guy 1 per boat. No one will go fishing for one per boat, but its one less fish per boat turned back dead.
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Coastal Angler Mag
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Re: BOHICA

Post by Coastal Angler Mag »

This is a topic that really gets me hot, the question I have to Red Yakker is why would you support something like this. In real numbers the recreational fisherman and the charter captains with all of their customers and throw in the spear fishermen who can selectively pick the big ones take less than half of the fish. I want everyone to take into consideration what by catch really is, it’s some keepers but when it boils down to it it’s the big breeder bull reds, the big breeder trout, and all of the juvenile fish of every species. I had a meeting with a biologist about six months ago on this very subject. A commercial net fisherman has on average 87% by catch so that means for every 13 fish that goes to market 87 die what kind of *&*^%^$^$& is that man. WHY!! Why does a commercial fisherman need have a slot that would allow them to have 75 trout up to 24” and they can cast net them. I know that this is a way of life for people but so is going out for the day just to relax and put a few fish in the freezer, I am all for slot limits and bag limits, I am also very much opposed to making the bag for reds 2 fish. I want to be able to see the schools of 30 years ago the ones that are legend today and I want my son to be able to see them to, and guess what it’s because of commercial fishing. I know that cutting back the commercial limits and changing the way they can bring fish in would help, but you know what there was over $5,380,435,750.00 spent last year in Florida in retail bait &tackle shops that employ three times the amount of people than there are commercial fishermen in the country and that’s just Florida. So you tell me who is going to take that hit, I know I don’t want to see landmarks like Jerry’s or Crums Mini Mall and so many others close so a handful of commercial boats can make their payments. So YES red_yakker I would rather those guys go on food stamps and be on welfare or even take tax dollars and pay off their debt because it would be cheaper in the long run because there are far fewer of them than employees of bait & tackle stores around the state, as I’m sure most of you know that this is a problem and historically it has always been the problem, I thought it would be common sense, when too much of something is taken limit the ones who take the most not take away from the ones who just take what they need. I thought this was America but I guess the red is starting to wash out the white and blue, what a shame.
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Re: BOHICA

Post by MudDucker »

While it may be their job, commercial fishing is the weakest economic link in this chain. Fishing is also the job of the charter captains, marinas, bait sellers, motels, restaurants, boat manufacturer, engine manufacturer, bait manufacturer, etc, etc. Sport fishing has 100 times more impact on the economy and jobs than does commercial fishing. Too many people don't know the facts and they buy into bullshitz on this issue.
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Re: BOHICA

Post by What a mess »

Both great on point comments. If we said stop all commercial fishing now and let the recreational angler have its way with the fish stocks folks would think we are crazy.
Why is it it doesn't work the other way around. It was getting rid of the nets that started the Trout and Redfish stocks in Florida.
Yesterday it was taboo today it is normal what the heck will they be doing tomorrow?
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MudDucker
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Re: BOHICA

Post by MudDucker »

If you had fished in the 60's and 70's, you would know that we still don't have the fish stock we used to have. Netters were greedy and indiscriminately whipping out huge schools of trout, while claiming they were primarily after mullet. Offshore, purse seiners were whipping out the breeding reds. There is NO WAY hook and line can deplete a stock like a net can.
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big bend gyrene
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Re: BOHICA

Post by big bend gyrene »

Red Yakker, appreciate the reply and was guessing that was your take... again one I sympathize with myself... absolutely want the stock to be healthy. :thumbup: :beer:

My concern is that be someone liberal or conservative, we should be able to agree that Obama's vocal positions on resource utilization is a more "good for the sum" versus "good for the individual"... he's made thousands of speeches where he's said as much. Accordingly, I'm worried that as stocks recover going forward and seasons get re-opened, it could easily be the case that the feds under liberal guidance side with using the stock as a feeding resource for the nation giving the bulk, if not all, allocations to the netters providing fish to the public even if they also put the biggest dent in the numbers. This could easily have us individual rod & reel fishermen left out of the game. Again, time will tell.

BBG
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