Ga. governor says state will sue to cut Apalachicola flow

[wevans]

Everybody,

This is not a Georgia vs. Florida thing at all. It is a North Georgia and the City of Atlanta vs. Central Georgia, South Georgia, Alabama and Florida thing.

Actually, most of South Georgia and north central Florida don't use any rivers for their water supply. We are all using one of the world's largest aquifers. I don't think Atlanta is gonna run a pipe down here

I KNOW that they won't

[EddieJoe]

[quote="MudDucker Not to be offensive, but anyone from Florida who gets on his high horse about Georgia development is a hypocrite in my opinion. Florida's unplanned growth sprawl is the worst in the nation.[/quote]

Sorry if I appeared to be on a "high horse", because I did prominently mention Florida's goofy water projects, too. You are right, Florida hasn't controlled development very well, either, although we generally have done at least a mediocre job of managing water (but that isn't saying much). If you check the literature, I would suspect you would find that Florida does not have the worst urban sprawl in the nation. I think that dubious distinction would probably go to California as a state, and major urban centers in general (i.e., Atlanta, Washington, D.C., Boston, Miami/Dade, New York City, Dallas/Ft. Worth, L.A., etc.).

My previous comment about using primarily structural solutions (that would be the Corps building reservoirs) for water management in Georgia is certainly relevant, IMO. Comprehensive Water Management should include land planning, conservation, source protection, and certainly consideration of environmental concerns (that would be fish and wildlife, ecosystems, etc.). Dams, dams, impoundments, and more dams aren't the answer, for anyone, anywhere.

EJ

[boggob]

Not to be offensive, but anyone from Florida who gets on his high horse about Georgia development is a hypocrite in my opinion. Florida's unplanned growth sprawl is the worst in the nation.

As stupid as Florida is with its growth and water management (or lack thereof). Its policies and decisions (or lack thereof) in no way, shape, or form impact Georgia or its resources. The same cannot be said for Atlanta.

[Chalk]

All the things of topic were more or less induced by people that are probably dead, hind sight is always 20/20.

[tin can]

It's no different than Katrina hitting New Orleans. It's another unnatural natural disaster. Those in the know knew this could happen. There is a drought. The system in place won't handle the demand without rain. This will pass. But, until it does, fingers will be pointed, and folks will suffer, and the governments (all of them) will spend more money.The same thing happened in the mid west in the 20's. It was known as the dust bowl.

It's hard to control mother nature.

[Barhopr]

It's no different than Katrina hitting New Orleans. It's another unnatural natural disaster. Those in the know knew this could happen. There is a drought. The system in place won't handle the demand without rain. This will pass. But, until it does, fingers will be pointed, and folks will suffer, and the governments (all of them) will spend more money.The same thing happened in the mid west in the 20's. It was known as the dust bowl.

It's hard to control mother nature.

Alright...somebody got ahold of TinCan login information. he hasn't said that much all year.

[MudDucker]

Not to be offensive, but anyone from Florida who gets on his high horse about Georgia development is a hypocrite in my opinion. Florida's unplanned growth sprawl is the worst in the nation.

As stupid as Florida is with its growth and water management (or lack thereof). Its policies and decisions (or lack thereof) in no way, shape, or form impact Georgia or its resources. The same cannot be said for Atlanta.

Negatory ghost rider, you might want to look at Jacksonville's impact on Georgia all the way up to Brunswick.

[MudDucker]

I meant to say "some" of the worst urban sprawl, not the worst. Eddie Joe, the sprawl of Miami and now of all places, the Ocala area, are oft shown as examples of some of the worst urban sprawl in America. Tampa's water problems are so bad, they are experimenting with desalinization of sea water.

[MudDucker]

Here some facts few want to look at:

Atlanta uses less than 4% of the daily river flow from the Chattahoochee River.

Since 1990, the city of Atlanta has increased its number of water/sewer customers by more than 9 percent, yet the total amount of water processed for customer use has dropped by more than 5 percent.

[tin can]

An important function of Lake Sidney Lanier is water supply and quality. Over 3.5 million Georgians depend on water stored in the lake or from the Chattahoochee River downstream of Buford Dam.

Several surrounding counties and cities withdraw water daily from the lake. These include Gwinnett , Hall and Forsyth counties as well as the cities of Gainesville, Cumming, and Buford. In total they are allowed to withdraw a maximum of 100 million gallons a day from the lake.

Counties and cities immediately downstream of Lake Lanier also depend on water stored in Lake Lanier. They withdraw water from the Chattahoochee River which is nourished by water released from the lake through the Buford Powerhouse. These include Fulton, Cobb and Dekalb counties and the city of Atlanta. In total they are allowed to withdraw up to 377 million gallons of water a day from the river.

Water flows into Lake Lanier from numerous creeks, streams and rivers forming the watershed for Lake Lanier. The drainage area is approximately 1,040 square miles. Although this sounds like a large area, it is relatively small for a lake the size of Lanier which has 73 square miles of surface water at normal pool, a 14:1 ratio. The thumbnail to the left is a link to a .pdf document, a .jpg file format is also available.

[EddieJoe]

I meant to say "some" of the worst urban sprawl, not the worst. Eddie Joe, the sprawl of Miami and now of all places, the Ocala area, are oft shown as examples of some of the worst urban sprawl in America. Tampa's water problems are so bad, they are experimenting with desalinization of sea water.

I'm having a hard time figuring out why you seem to want to defend Atlanta's development patterns. I sure wouldn't defend some down here. To put a point on it, Atlanta rates first as worst urban sprawl example. There are several that make the list in Florida, too, and being on a list like this is no "honor". Personally, I hate what development has done to the Florida of my youth. Between yankees coming from the North and latins from the South "my Florida" is in deep trouble from invaders and aliens.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

According to the Sierra Club, here are the cities with the worst urban sprawl:

Cities of 1 million or more people (20): Atlanta, St. Louis, Washington D.C., Cincinnati, Kansas City, Denver, Seattle, Minneapolis-St.Paul, Ft. Lauderdale, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Tampa, Dallas, Hampton Roads, Pittsburgh, Miami, San Antonio, Riverside-St. Bernardino, CA

Cities of 500,000 to 1 million people (5): Orlando; Austin, TX; Las Vegas; West Palm Beach, FL; Akron, OH

Cities of 200,000 to 500,000 (5): McAllen, TX; Raleigh; Pensacola, FL; Daytona Beach, FL; Little Rock; AS

The Sierra Club did not include Los Angeles in its ranking, although it said the city is acknowledged to be “the granddaddy of sprawl.â€

[Littoral]

Ya'll hang in there. I'm enjoying the conversation.
It's obvious that (most) everyone is trying hard to rationally discuss a very complicated and volatile subject.
That doesn't happen NEARLY often enough.

[ak man]

Atlanta has severe water restrictions on people right now. There is absolutely no car washing, lawn watering or anything else. If you are seen doing it there are hotlines neighbors can call and turn you in. You get a $1000 fine and your water cut off if you get busted. Are the counties in S. GA and N FL doing anything like this? If my job didn't require me to live in ATL, I promise, I would not. But.... it has become a scapegoat for s ga and florida's problems. Atlanta is really not the problem, the drought is. If it wasn't for Lake Lanier releasing it's water reserve into the hooch, their would be no river by the time it got to Ft Gaines, not to mention the FL line. All these water sources are fed by rainwater....if there's no rain...there's no water for anyone, regardless of which part of the state you live in.

It seems the only place that has gotten semi regular rain is on my food plots in Webster County, which is probably the damn driest place in GA. Go figure

[raven316]

I live in Athens and the developers here and on the Gulf Coast are vampires.

[Seachaser]

As for my previous comment on the "guvnur" buying cheap land in Florida, it was disclosed in his campaign that his principle donor for his election "sold" him a pile of land near Orlando that he could have tripled (or more) the value the next day. And to set the record straight, I am from GA and live less than 60 miles from the "guvnurs" home. I am a republican and he is also, so I can call him a crook. After all, he switched parties to get elected the first time and then backed out on all of the promises he made to certain groups to get elected. I could go into some more gory details, but it is boring. Also, I have relatives that depend on Lanier for water and we have been having this debate for at least 10 years. There is a great article in today's Macon Telegraph that states that the problem is not the water, but the poor planning.